Women's Money Wisdom

Episode 283: Rethinking Retirement: The Emotional, Purpose-Driven Side of Life After Work with Dan Haylett

• Melissa Joy, CFP® • Season 1 • Episode 283

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What if the hardest part of retirement isn’t financial—but emotional?

Retirement isn’t the goalpost we’ve been taught to chase. It’s a major life transition, and according to retirement researcher and financial planner Dan Haylett, many people arrive unprepared—not because the math is wrong, but because they never planned for what comes next.

Melissa Joy, CFP® sits down with Dan—author of The Retirement You Didn’t See Coming and host of the Humans vs Retirement podcast—to explore the emotional landscape of retirement and why most planning misses the mark. Together, they unpack the “Retirement Reinvention Curve,” a three-phase, eight-stage model that reflects the psychological shifts retirees experience.

They go beyond the portfolio to talk about identity loss, the illusion of a permanent vacation, and how to find rhythm, purpose, and joy in life after work.

Whether you're preparing to retire or helping clients make the leap, this conversation will shift your perspective on what truly matters most.

💡 Key Themes Covered:

  • Why financial planning should be 70% life and 30% numbers
  • The five pillars of a thriving retirement: Purpose, Identity, Relationships, Structure & Wellbeing
  • What most people miss when they focus only on "retiring from" instead of "retiring to"
  • The emotional curve of retirement—from shock to elation to flourishing
  • How to navigate identity loss when the job title goes away
  • Tools for couples to align their personal and shared retirement visions
  • Why your post-retirement rhythm matters more than your withdrawal rate
  • How relationships shape retirement happiness more than wealth

🔗 Resources:

The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only. No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https:...

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner and the founder of Pearl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show. Welcome back to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. Today, I'm going to have a conversation that's about retirement, but it may surprise you, because I think there's a lot that we're getting wrong in retirement that we need to start getting right, and I'm here bringing a podcast king, dan Halit, who is the founder of Humans vs Retirement and director of TFP Financial Planning. Dan helps people navigate the messy middle between work and what's next, and he has a brand new book that's all about retirement that we're also going to be talking about. Dan, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 2:

Melissa, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. It's been too long. We met a couple of years ago at a conference in the States. So lovely to see you reconnect up and have this conversation. Can't wait.

Speaker 1:

And full disclosure to connect the accent to the location you practice financial planning and are an expert on retirement overseas right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so this is that I've got a very British accent and yeah, so I'm the other side of the pond. But what I love about this subject and you know I come over to America to see you at the conference and saw you at the conference and and have done other stuff in the states and globally this, this subject of modern retirement planning, um, is far reaching because it's not all about the numbers. So when we're talking about what it means to retire, what are we retiring with and into um? What I love is that we can talk about this no matter what side of the ponder at, because I think everybody's emotional makeup is challenged when it comes to this stage of life.

Speaker 1:

So true, I think that there's. It's not about there are some cultural kind of nuances, but my financial advisor friends in the UK or Canada have so much in common in the work that they're doing with clients, and you and I are both part of a cohort of people in our profession who see beyond the numbers to the people that the numbers are supporting, and you're an exceptional communicator on that. So that's what I want to dig into today is let's start with your book. So the title is the Retirement you Didn't See Coming.

Speaker 2:

Tell me why this book needs to be in the world. Yeah, I mean, I think for me there's too much focus on um, on on the numbers when it comes to retirement planning, and there's too much emphasis on what the numbers might it comes to retirement planning, and there's too much emphasis on what the numbers might provide people right. So, you know, numbers might. We believe.

Speaker 2:

I think and the first part of the book is where I try and retire 10 illusions about retirement and I talk about, you know, one of those is the numbers make us feel safe and I think a lot of people believe that as long as I've got the numbers and the spreadsheet nailed down, then this retirement thing is just going to happen and it's going to be great. And there's so many other different myths and illusions that I'm sure we get onto in the next 25, 30 minutes. But I really wanted to write this book because I wanted to tackle what I think are the most dangerous parts of retirement. Coming from a place where I have witnessed the good and the bad of retirement planning, when I work with clients on a one-to-one basis, I can see where retirement fails and it's never failed because of the number.

Speaker 2:

It's never failed because they haven't got the spreadsheet right. It's always failed because they haven't got the spreadsheet right. It's always failed because they haven't recognized that. You know, one of the most dangerous times or days in retirement is probably when you're six months in. It's a Tuesday morning at 947. You're in your dressing gown, you've opened up the fridge a couple of times, the dog is sick of you, your wife or your husband has gone out, the kids are flowing, but what is now? What is it now? There's's.

Speaker 2:

You know that that's some of the most dangerous times in retirement. Not, will I run out of money? Is my portfolio going down? Um, you know what am I? What's my safe withdrawal rate? It's the emotional void and challenges that this stage of life can really deliver to us. So you know, having read a number of retirement books, I just felt like I had so much information in my head. I just wanted to get it into something that allowed me to try and communicate what I believe are some of the biggest challenges in retirement and how I think people could start to plan for and overcome them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think as I was preparing for this episode and conversation, I realized so many financial planners who retire people for a living never want to retire and are afraid of it, and you know they both love their jobs but also their identity is is so intertwined with you know their purpose and their passion and their work. You know their purpose and their passion and their work and it just felt ironic that you know a lot of my friends are like well, I'm never retiring, or even you know, elders, I'm fully committed to retiring someday, but that means I'm going to need to do a lot of work over the next 10 or 20 years to be prepared, because there is that void that you see, you know, whether you call it retirement depression or just you know, lacking the ability to link your current state to your purpose. That is a real threat to well-being that we see professionally, if not kind of, tended to.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean I think it's really interesting when I speak to other financial advisors. So you know, I've been fortunate enough for my work to take me to places like the Shift Conference, where we met, where I've kind of presented my work and my thoughts to other financial advisors and financial planners. And what's really interesting, melissa, is when they come up to me and go thanks, dan, that was I mean. You know, it sounds like I'm praising myself here.

Speaker 1:

No, praise yourself, it praising myself here, but that was amazing.

Speaker 2:

Um and but the next bit's really interesting. Thanks, dan.

Speaker 2:

That was amazing and I think I'm definitely going to take some of that into the client work I'm doing, but it's had a really big impact on me, that's kind of I get that a lot we've met and it's you know, when I start talking about identity and purpose and structure and well-being and all of the emotional, I'm sure we're touching to the emotional curve that I've come up with about how these different emotional stages of retirement.

Speaker 2:

I think a lot of financial advisors are so invested in their job and their career that they are more tied to an identity than a lot of professions that I do see and I'm talking to them and they're going, wow, how am I going to let go of this and how am I going to move on from being Melissa the financial planner or Dan the financial planner when I'm introducing myself? What is that next stage look like when I haven't got my clients that are kind of um, that are reliant on me to talk to them? I've got this open diary that I've now got to fill with purpose and identity because I've kind of had it filled for me previously. And it's really interesting when I, when I do talk to advisors about that, how the the impact of this whole retirement conversation has on them personally and I well, I think one of the things for me, like you just said, is I actually want to take I want people to take those thoughts into the work that they do, right I?

Speaker 2:

mean if if, if, if our thoughts are we're never going to retire because we cannot um face the hard work of creating a new identity for ourselves, how can we ever communicate to people that we want to work with about, you know, trying to face that head-on and what the challenges are around that? I think it can be.

Speaker 1:

You know, the two conversations can really work hand in hand yeah, yeah, and I, if I were working with a financial planner, I'd want someone who could be personally introspective, because that's what I think the best financial planners are seeking with others is to find that true self, find what's inside. Get up Maslow's hierarchy of financial needs, you know, beyond the basic needs and things like that, I think this would be a good time to talk about what are those emotional stages? So you've seen and observed and spoken about retirement, researched it. What do you see as what someone can expect as they start to contemplate their own? It sounds like contemplate your mortality, contemplate your retirement. It's not a finish line, right?

Speaker 2:

It's the start of a different stage of your life yeah, and I think that's that's probably the key point, isn't it? I mean, it's not, you know, it's not. Um, if we think about how we see this, it's people see that retirement is the goal and that, to be to be honest, that is illusion number one in the first part of the book. Right, illusion number one is retirement is the goal and the steps that we take to get to this kind of proverbial flag in in the mountain to go. I've reached the destination. Um, you know, you go through all these emotional stages to reach the destination and you've reached the destination and then there's just this like sheer drop of like, what's next, what?

Speaker 1:

or what like. Know like I thought it would feel so good. I've had that in career phases in the past where it's like, if once I'm here, everything will be figured out. Then you get there and you're like, oh wait, like this doesn't feel great.

Speaker 2:

And actually I think and I will get to the answer to your question, but it kind of leads into this I think sportsmen and sportswomen have a really interesting take on this and I'm a big golf fan and I listened to Scotty Scheffler talk over the weekend at the open over here and he talks about the journey, not the destination. And almost winning a trophy, if you put all of your work into the destination, the of the trophy, you've got to go back the next day and do something. So what does what does after winning the trophy mean and what does after winning the Super Bowl mean and what does after winning the championship mean and all of this stuff. And I think you know it's really challenging for people. If you see retirement as the destination and you get there and you haven't planned for what's next, it can be hugely, hugely challenging. Um, and so the emotional journey I've called it the retirement reinvention curve and it basically is it's a three phase, eight stage journey and it and I got the inspiration from the Kublerler ross change curve of grief, I don't know whether you've heard that, but basically this is saying um, that, what?

Speaker 2:

What type of emotion, emotional journey do people go through during the grieving process and there's lots of talk and thought that retirement is very much a grieving process because it does involve a lot of loss, you know, loss of identity loss, identity loss of friendships, loss of structure. You know there's a whole load of loss that sits in there. So If we think about the first phase this is what I call the release phase and we look at retirement shock as the first phase. So shock is that first emotion. It's you waking up and you're going, oh my god, I'm retired. Or oh my god, I've left my job, oh my god, what am I doing now? And we often see that that's a real dip in people's um, um, emotional psyche and that's the point I was trying to make about the finish line.

Speaker 2:

but if we see retirement finish line and we haven't planned for what's next, so much then you're going to get into shock, because what's next is going to shock you, even if it's open space or not, and so that's a real challenge for people when they go into this shock emotional phase. What you often then find is, after that initial shock and again, there's no order to this People can get these different emotions in different times, different phases. They can spend no time in one and a long time in another. Um, but then we get to what I call elation, which is that honeymoon phase of retirement.

Speaker 2:

Right, it's kind of like, oh, I've got out the shock, I'm now in a bit of a rhythm. It feels like one permanent holiday. This is wonderful, wonderful, like I'm getting up when I want, I'm kind of doing the things I want, et cetera, et cetera. But the trouble with any honeymoon or any holiday right, they kind of come to an end. And the trouble is, when you treat retirement like a permanent holiday, you don't actually enjoy the holiday. The reason why we enjoy the holiday is we build up to it, we do it, and then we have to come back to a bit of reality. So we look forward to the next holiday, that that we go on my favorite part of holidays is the anticipation phase.

Speaker 1:

Like I, I love vacations too, but you know, like that, having that six months of just thinking ahead is such an important part of the journey for me. So, yeah, I get it absolutely, absolutely, um.

Speaker 2:

And then that last bit of the, the first release phase, is after the, after that elation, after that kind of real well, this is what a time is meant to be like. Things just start to become a little bit cloudy. It's like I it's called unease, as I call it so just feels, things start to feel a bit off with people. It's like, well, is this, it is this kind of know, is this what it's meant to be? I'm still getting up, you know, at half nine. I haven't really got much structure. I've checked my inbox a couple of times. No one's emailing me. You know these kind of things that people really struggle with.

Speaker 2:

And that's when I do see. I do see a kind of a this where people start going back to work because they get frustrated and they're not sure why. They feel bad. It's like I'm retired, I've got the spreadsheet sorted out. It should be better. I feel bad, they can't, they can't figure out who they're going to be, so they go back to the thing that they was, even if they did want to get away from it.

Speaker 2:

So that that's what really starts to happen when we go through, go through this curve, and I think the problem is when we go through um, go through this curve and and I think the problem is, when we go into the second stage of rebuild, that is lowest ebb we get into like doubt, right, and and actually in the cube la ross change curve of grief, the lowest ebb is depression and there's no I don't think there's no surprise that you depression rates in retirees are on the rise.

Speaker 2:

You're 40 percent more likely to be diagnosed with depression in retirement than if you're not in retirement. You know, these are the stats that are coming out and you do see people enter into this phase of their life that haven't planned that well for the emotional journey and they get into this self-doubt phase, quite depressive states, and they really, really struggle to rebound back, start igniting and flourishing in their life because they just haven't figured out what they want to do and they get into this spiral down. So I think that's why it's so important to just recognize these different states and you're probably going to go through every one of them at some point. But it doesn't mean you failed. Know, retirement isn't a binary outcome, right? I mean it's not a pass or fail, it's just kind of like a journey um and we're all going to go through different emotions.

Speaker 2:

But understanding them, understanding why you feel like it and having some, maybe tools available to you to be able to feel like you know how to um work your way out of it or start questioning how you can, you know, move on to the next phase or start to feel like you're building a life post work is so, so important so let's talk about that building phase.

Speaker 1:

You have tools or suggestions that can help you to be, you know, resourced to change the status from that unease. And I have to be thinking you're experiencing a deficit in relationships in that moment of unease because so many of us have so many critical relationships that are defined and held within work. So how do you go about turning things around or kind of pivoting to maybe a more positive or constructive phase?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it comes back. So the next kind of chapter in my book is about trying to figure out how to do that, and I talk about the five pillars of a thriving retirement, and those five pillars are purpose, identity, relationships, structure and well-being.

Speaker 2:

And you mentioned relationships, which I think is really, really important. So what I say to people is, I think, even if you feel like you've got all of this figured out, you're still probably going to touch upon some of these emotions anyway, because you haven't got it figured out, because you simply don't know what's going to happen, because you've never been retired before or that kind of thing right, we don't know how we're going to react, but we can have an idea. The key thing for me is figuring those five things out. So purpose, identity, relationship, structure and well-being. And you, you mentioned purpose, melissa, a couple of times.

Speaker 2:

I think that's number one for a reason. I do think that purpose is centre and central to us as human beings living a happy and joyful existence. Resistance, um, and our careers and work have given us a reason to pull back the duvet, even if we don't necessarily really like it. It's give us a sense of purpose, um, and actually I think people underestimate how much they do like about their job. Even if they tell people they really don't like it, there is, there is still a number of things that give us a sense of purpose. Um, and the thing for the thing about purpose for me is that we get miss. It's kind of misunderstood in that we, we believe that we need this kind of change, the world type purpose, um, this kind of, you know, inspirational, ted talky type purpose, and we don't. We just need to find the things that matter to us. Um, and purpose can be tiny as long as it makes us feel joyful in in what we do. Um, and so if we figure out what what I say is going to make us pull back the duvet in the morning, if we can figure out who we want to be without the job title, which I think is going to be hugely important, and not just who we're going to be without the job title, but who we're going to be as a person.

Speaker 2:

And then the relationship thing, as you absolutely said, our relationships with our partner or our spouse, our children, children, our established friends, our work colleagues, et cetera, is going to rapidly change over that course of retirement, and we need to work on that. We need to figure out who we want to spend more time with and who we don't. We need to figure out, particularly for couples, we need to figure out three journeys. I talk about three journeys. It's kind of your journey, my journey and our journey together, and too many people focus on their own or too many people focus on one journey at the expense of their own journey or the journey together. So if we can kind of have those really good conversations and open up about what you want from your retirement, what I want from um, from from the retirement, from our second half of life, this phase, and what we can do together and honor each other's space and that, etc. Then it will create an amazing environment to feel like you can put some purpose and identity and have positive relationships around this stage of life.

Speaker 2:

And we know how impactful positive relationships are. The harvard study has told us this. It said that it's the number one reason for happiness. Right, our positive relationships, um. And also the number one challenge of retirees is replacing the relationships they had at work. So we know how challenging and how positive this can be, um. So I think those three form the bulk of the foundation, making sure that we have some structure to our day so we're not just kind of going into a blank canvas. We don't need to fill every hour, but we need to know that there is structure, because we have had structure all of our life. So you know mostly. So going into this nothingness is going to be a huge problem. And then working on our well-being. If we haven't got our emotional, mental and physical health intact or being looked after or worked on, then it doesn't really matter about the rest, right? I mean, you know you can have as much money as you want, but if you can't use it because you're physically, emotionally or mentally unable to do it, then it doesn't really matter.

Speaker 1:

So we've got to make sure that we continue to work on on that as well I mean, this is why we need a book for this, because we could have an entire episode just about how difficult it is to switch from saving to spending when it's that bucket that you've been treasuring for so long.

Speaker 1:

So there's so much there that we've talked about in other episodes. But when you then you have this hopefully copacetic rebuilding stage where you you get into a good stasis and perhaps you find contentment, fulfillment, that purpose and identity what other? I think there's a third stage, right Like what else can you be expecting over the years in retirement?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so it's. It's what I call kind of recalibrate is like the last, the last phase or the last, um, the last stage, and and really in, um, in, in that recalibration stage, um, you end up kind of going into um, but sorry, recalibration is the last stage in rebuilding and so you kind of get that bit where you start to rebuild, but you're recalibrating your life and then, and then really we go into reignite.

Speaker 2:

So, really, when you feel like you're at this point where you, um, you get to a point where you've found something, you've kind of ignited something within you, um, a project that lights you up, a relationship that feels deeper. And I talk about rhythm a lot, um, you know a rhythm that makes your days feel alive. I think we've we've got this internal rhythm and we've had it and we kind of take that away and I'm a big believer that human beings are creatures of rhythm, right. I think that's when we're at our best, when we kind of get into a rhythm, um, and then you, the great thing about this is that you don't really notice it. You just realize that you're excited to get up and you're curious again and you look forward to things and, um, and that's the kind of the, the real kind of ignite um phase.

Speaker 2:

It's not it's not about kind of finding the thing. I think it's just about reconnecting with what makes you feel alive, right, and and so a lot of people have long held ambitions, ambitions or dreams or goals or objectives that were squashed because of work and they start to realize that it can be. You know, some of my most wonderful clients have just started painting again, or listening to music that they never got around to, or going to concerts, or started up cooking because they've always had this weird obsession with cooking and never been able to dedicate any time to feeling like they can get better at it. And that's what is igniting them, right. Very simple things that that don't sound grand you're, but it's making them get up and they're enjoying their days doing it.

Speaker 1:

Um, and so I think that's why I found myself thinking the same. I have a client who had always wanted to be writing in a you know fiction instead of as an attorney, who's working on releasing his second book and self-published. And another client who'd always wanted to be a filmmaker and he released a film with a friend. He'd had an advertising career and then pivoted, and so, before you even mentioned those examples, same, but those require a lot of energy, a lot of work. You're really learning about the way the world works in those fields and areas. So I can see the recalibrating, because it's not always a you know decades long.

Speaker 2:

You got to, like you know, recalibrate and figure out where your energy needs to go next yeah, and I think intention is kind of one of my big words in this is you need to be, actually, I think, more intentional that you than you've ever been, because you've kind of now got to figure this all out by yourself. You've got no one really spoon feeding you any of this stuff, right, you? You know, like we talked about identity, if, if someone asks kind of who are you, they kind of go, what do you do? Sorry that we answer it with our career, our, our job title or we give them a business card.

Speaker 2:

So we're spoon fed our identity, we're spoon fed our purpose, we're spoon fed our structure. You know our calendars are filling up for us now in an automated world, right? I mean, people book into my calendar, I booked into your calendar and we never really spoke, right, Because it's now you know. So people have booked. But my calendar is open to certain people. You can book into the calendar. My days are almost filled a little bit for me. I don't have to work very hard on filling Monday to Friday.

Speaker 1:

It's true, yes, you know.

Speaker 2:

So you don't right, I don't have to work hard filling Sunday because I play golf, and then I kind of my kids tell me what I'm going to do on a Saturday, right, so my diary's kind of pretty much done for me. Um, so my structure's being taken, my relationships are kind of on on me right work, family, home, my golf buddies, etc. But once all that is kind of stripped away, um, it's we have to be more intentional about what we want to do, why we want to do it, how we want to do it, more thoughtful. We need more space, we need to give ourselves more grace to have that downtime to think, and I think that's part of the trouble I see with a real modern day Gen X retiree is that they we have I'm part of that group been brought up and are living in a very noisy, always-on world. That I think one of the big challenges is to kind of give you know, to have nothing to do and time to think and time to plan and time to you know and and and that's good, right, that's okay, to be able to sit there and go.

Speaker 2:

This is what I'm going to do, this is how I want to do it, and it's gonna take time for me to sit down and really think properly about why I'm doing it and how I'm doing it and what it means, and and and I think so many people think they have to you know, I don't know finish on the friday evening and have everything planned from the monday morning because, you know, I need to make sure I'm busy, um and so if we do it that way, we end up in the last stage, which is flourish. Right, and that flourishing stage is kind of going. You know, this feels like life again. You're not searching anymore, you're not measuring against anything, you're not second getting any choices, you're not trying to prove anything to anybody, you're just living a way that simply feels true to you. And that's what I think is where everybody should really aim for this phase of life.

Speaker 1:

I mean, it's surprising if this is a new concept to you to hear how much work it is. But I agree, finding that moment where in the moment feels right, where you can have a sense of contentment and not, you know, over seeking for abundance, but it feels right right now. I love the Scotty Scheffler videos from the British open last week and also, um, I read an article in the New York times this summer that was about um, tiny little joys, just recognizing when things feel right and how important that is to and how it just can be a game changer in terms of mindset and wellbeing. If you don't have the right framework just see the world and you're just focusing on the cues from external kind of inputs and sources, it can be so difficult and you get further and further away from kind of that goalpost. So it's so valuable, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

One thing there, melissa as well, that I try and tell everybody is when you're in that moment of joy or contentment, or flourish, whatever it is, savor it and understand why you're there. Too many people rush past it. They get into this joy moment and they kind of move on and they don't really think about well, why do I feel like you? This is important to ask. Why do I feel like that in moments of joy as it is? Why do I feel like that in moments of doubt or frustration? Because you need to have emotional anchors at either point. Right, I need to, I need to have this emotion. Why do I feel like this?

Speaker 2:

I was because of that circumstance, that environment, that thing, that thing. Okay, that's cool. Now I know what does do. That doesn't mean I live in it all the time, because life will ebb and flow, but I kind of know these. I start learning about what truly is making me feel good and happy. Um, so I do see people I say in my book, but a lot of the time, slow down in that moment, slow down, savor it, take a breath and feel it, and then so you can then feel like you know what. That is right, I mean, so important.

Speaker 1:

Well, you're plugging a recent episode which was about the slow money summer. So I completely agree and I guess, in addition to strongly encouraging our listeners to purchase the book the Retirement you Didn't See Coming, what other prescriptive you know kind of changes or modifications would you suggest for those who are pre-retirement maybe they're five or 10 years away in order to get ready for this massive transition that is? Work is about so much more than money, um, any you know kind of last minute tips that you would suggest yeah, again, I think.

Speaker 2:

I think it becomes very hard for people to feel like that they they take their mindset and focus away from the money. So, um what? One of one of those tips for me is to feel like you've got these ratios in your head and and if you're five years away from retirement, I would suggest you want to be at least 50 50 in your money versus life planning.

Speaker 2:

So if you're five years away from retirement. 50% of your retirement planning energy I don't know how you're going to define that. Let's define that you have an energy about your retirement planning. 50% of that energy, focus and time needs to be about what does life look like. And then, when you're three years away from retirement, I think really that should be 70 to 80% about what life is going to look like.

Speaker 2:

Because there are two things I think are really important. Um, you need to figure out what you're retiring with and what you're retiring to. And I think the with thing is really interesting because so many people focus on what they're retiring from and leave it there. They go. I really want to stop work, I want to stop work and the big thing is, have I got enough to leave job? That's the kind of equation and they don't focus on what they're retiring to. And I see a marked difference in people that go. Actually, I'm now going to focus on what I'm retiring to and so they work on the things that are going to happen post-retirement.

Speaker 2:

But there is a missing link and that's the retire with thing, because in that gap between, say, years free down to actually leaving work and going into the second phase of life. Focus on what you're retiring with, ie with a new sense of identity, with some new purposes to go into with um, maybe a newfound relationship with your partner or spouse. You know that you, that you know you're going into with um. You know different um mindsets or different focuses. So that bit there, I think, is really, really important. Don't neglect working on yourself during that two or three years, because actually you're going to have more security I if you're still in paid work and you've got the paycheck coming in, there's a little bit more security for you to feel like you can work on that over that period of time. Um. So that would be my number one. My number one tip the retirement ratio should be 70, 30, 80, 20 in favor of life over money.

Speaker 2:

And then focus on what you're retiring with. And two um. And you know there are great questions that you can ask yourself. You can ask your friend, you can ask your spouse or partner what that might be. There's some questions in the, in the book that I put together and they're difficult. Melissa right, these are not, these are not easy questions, but they are essential to be able to figure this stuff out. So you're ultimately going to take advantage of all the work that you've had to put in to get to the point that affords you the ability to be able to think about this phase of life. So I think everybody owes it to themselves to put a bit of groundwork in, to take advantage of that hard work and savings that they've built up over the last 20, 30, 40 years.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. You know an investment of your resources into support and a framework that can be sustainable in retirement is so important, and if you find that the professionals you speak with are only talking about you know statements and you know holdings and investments, then you may need additional professionals or you may not be working with the right professional, because I know integrating these concepts into a preparation for retirement to me is, you know, table stakes. This just has to be something where you can't anticipate that everybody's got that part figured out, because we see it, we see the retirements more frequently than you're only going to retire once or twice, right, the retirements more frequently then you're you're you're only going to retire once or twice, right? So, um, you know, I hope that the practitioners that you work with have this frame of mind.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely, um, and I think that's it's so crucial because, as I said, I've I've got stories in the book where I've worked with people that had some of the most beautifully color coded binders that you've ever seen in your life.

Speaker 2:

It's kind of, you know, they've got the binders they figured they've worked with advisors before or they figured this stuff out themselves and they're coming with this binder and they're going look at this, this is amazing, I've got all the money stuff figured out, but I still feel really lost. But it's kind of like there's this. So, you know, I do think it's the, the professional's to connect the two, connect money with meaning. So what I say, connect kind of the spreadsheet with the stories or the number, with the narrative, to bring that gap together about what retirement looks like on a spreadsheet and what retirement actually feels like to live in, because otherwise the spreadsheet is is meaningless. So and I think that's you know, that that's what's really important, really important to me to to make sure people take advantage of that of, of, of, of what the hard work that they they've put in.

Speaker 1:

Well, Dan, I know our listeners receive the gift by listening to this episode. How can people find more Cause? You have so many great resources great resources including the book where can we find you to fall?

Speaker 2:

keep following and learn more yeah, so, um, my, my pretty much predominantly predominant and only uh, social media space is linkedin, um, I'm trying to wean myself off the social media, um, but I can't. I'm addicted a little bit. No, I'm good. So I'm on LinkedIn, my website, humansvsretirementcom. So humansvsretirementcom has all my stuff on there. So my podcast that you very kindly mentioned at the start, humans Versus Retirement and all the episodes are on there. My blog, my weekly, weekly newsletter, um, etc. So everything is kind of is on there for people, people to look at and, um, yeah, please connect up and have a look through all the stuff and, if anything resonates, reach out well the next time you're here in the states.

Speaker 1:

I hope to see you again and thank you so much and congratulations on the new book thank you so much and congratulations on the new book.

Speaker 3:

Thank you, appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. If you found value in this episode, the best way that you can support the podcast is to forward an episode to a friend or leave a review. Go to proplancom and the podcast link to get all the resources and links mentioned.

Speaker 3:

This presentation by Pro Planning is intended for general information purposes only. No portion of this presentation serves as a receipt of or a substitute for personal investment advice from Pro Planning or any other investment professional of your choosing. Copies of Pearl Planning's current rent and disclosure brochure and form CRS discussing our advisory services and fees are available upon request or on our website platform at pearlplancom. The information that we share is meant to educate and inspire, not serve as personalized financial advice. Everyone's situation is unique, so be sure to consult with your own financial professional for guidance that fits your life. And just so you know, the opinions shared in this podcast are Melissa's own and those of her guests. They don't necessarily represent any organizations with which Melissa is affiliated. For more important disclosures, please go to our webpage at proplancom.

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Melissa Joy, CFP

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