Episode 253: Celebrity Estate Planning Lessons with Jennifer Rozelle

Ever thought estate planning was only for the wealthy or elderly?

Think again. In this episode of the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast, renowned estate planner Jennifer Rozelle joins us to demystify the often-overlooked world of estate planning. Together, we explore why starting your estate plan early is essential, regardless of your age or financial situation.

From navigating guardianship for young families to managing complex financial assets in retirement, Jennifer offers invaluable advice to help you avoid common mistakes and secure your loved ones’ futures. We dive into the hidden complexities of wills, probate, and beneficiary designations, highlighting why relying on default intestacy laws can lead to unintended consequences.

With engaging real-world examples—including celebrity estate planning missteps from icons like Aretha Franklin and Kobe Bryant—we emphasize the importance of regular updates, personalized planning, and clear communication. Jennifer shares cautionary tales and expert tips, shedding light on issues like unrestricted inheritances, Medicaid implications, and the tax considerations that catch many off guard.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to take control of their financial legacy with confidence and clarity.

Listen and Learn:

• Why Estate Planning Matters at Any Life Stage: The crucial role it plays in protecting your loved ones.
• Navigating Common Pitfalls: Avoid mistakes with expert tips on wills, probate, and inheritance planning.
• Lessons from Celebrities: What high-profile cases teach us about the need for regular updates.
• The Power of Professional Guidance: How to craft a plan tailored to your needs and avoid a one-size-fits-all approach.
• Communication is Key: Ensuring your wishes are clear and effectively executed.

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Chapters

• 0:01 Estate Planning and Cautionary Tales
• 9:59 Avoiding Probate Pitfalls in Estate Planning
• 20:27 Celebrity Estate Planning Lessons Learned
• 33:54 Podcast and Content Creation Success

Transcript

Melissa Joy: 0:01

Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner and the founder of Pearl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show. Just a quick note before we dive in. The information that we share is meant to educate and inspire, not serve as personalized financial advice. Everyone's situation is unique, so be sure to consult with your own financial professional for guidance that fits your life. And just so you know, the opinions shared in this podcast are my own and those of my guests, and they don't necessarily represent those of any organizations that I'm affiliated with. For more important disclosures, please go to our webpage at pearlplan. com.

Melissa Joy: 0:55

Now let's get started. I know that estate planning might not be your favorite topic. In fact, I find it to be one of the topics that clients put off the most and like to discuss the least, and yet it is so important we remember and know that based on everyday practices. So I have a really fun guest today who is going to talk about estate planning based on cautionary tales and celebrity gossip. Jennifer Rozelle is an estate planner who is based in Indiana, and she is the owner of a firm and practices estate and elder law as an attorney at Indiana Estate and Elder Law. She wears many hats, but one of the best features of Jenny is that she talks like an everyday person about a topic that she's passionate about that many of us don't know a lot about. You can find her on social media on Twitter I'll never call it X or LinkedIn, and today Jenny's just going to talk that regular way and give us some reasons that we should look again at estate planning. Jenny, welcome to the podcast.

Jennifer Rozelle: 2:07

Well, thank you, and I'll try to bring the fun as much fun as we can have. When it talks about incapacity and dying I'm a big believer in. If you try to make the conversation fun, maybe more people will actually end up doing it maybe more people actually end up doing it.

Melissa Joy: 2:27

It's so true and just being relatable because there's, I think perfection is the enemy of progress when it comes to estate planning, because it's so difficult to have exactly the right game plan, but if you don't have something that is functional and working like, you're really up a creek, which is kind of what we want to talk about today, Like what if you don't do something? What if you assume that what you plan to do is something that you know you could just kind of get around the bounds of the law? That's really what you talk about so much when it comes to your communication and sharing with a broader audience.

Jennifer Rozelle: 2:59

Yeah, I think that where my head just went when you just said that is. I think when people hear that word estate planning, they tend to put it off for a whole number, a whole bunch of different reasons, but one of the reasons being that you know I'll just get to that when I'm older. You know I'll get to that when I retire, or you know, when I'm, you know, much older in life, and that is a. That is a um.

Jennifer Rozelle: 3:27

People make all the time and unfortunately life is so very precious and I meet and help families um navigate some pretty yucky situations which sometimes involve, you know, people in their thirties and forties that have like a massive medical event, and so what I would encourage people to remember is that estate planning, you know, really from a place of like making sure that your T's are crossed and I's are dotted, you should start on estate planning probably sooner than a lot of people think.

Jennifer Rozelle: 4:02

I help a lot of young families navigate getting some basic documents in place just to make sure, like guardianship provisions are in there just in case something were to happen to them. We want to make sure the kiddos are taken care of all the way up to people in their 90s and 100 that you know have maybe done the estate planning rodeo multiple times at that point, and so estate planning is just one of those things that you really should get a jumpstart as early as possible and just let that plan grow with you as your life changes and your family changes, your assets change. All that good stuff.

Melissa Joy: 4:40

It's so true and I was just thinking about it. Even like when you send your kids off to college, having they're an adult typically once they're 18, that might be the first point in time where you have a document that's they're signing. You know you're not telling them what to do. You may be encouraging them and say, here's, if this is okay, sign on the dotted line. You do a lot of education and this is kind of a teaser, teaser, this episode for your podcast, the Legal Tea Podcast, which we'll have a link to in the show notes and would recommend everybody like, follow, subscribe and, as we were getting ready for the show, you mentioned that your Cautionary Tale episodes are the most popular episodes that you have. What were the ones that really, like, just everybody was sharing with their friends?

Jennifer Rozelle: 5:25

Yeah, so cautionary tales are episodes that I talk about, like real life clients, real life stories that I have worked on and I think that they're so frequently listened to because I think people find them more relatable. They're, you know, the everyday people, they're our neighbors, they're our friends that this kind of stuff happens to. You know some of my I don't want to even say favorite cautionary tales because that seems very oxymoronic.

Melissa Joy: 5:54

Most important yeah.

Jennifer Rozelle: 5:55

Yes, you know a couple of them that come to mind. One is beneficiary designations. You know, in your and I's field, Melissa, we see so many people mess up on beneficiary designations. You know, in your and I's field, Melissa, we see so many people mess up on beneficiary designations, and what a lot of people don't know and understand is beneficiary designations trump what your estate plan states, and so if there's a conflict between a beneficiary on, say, like, a retirement account or a life insurance policy, versus what your will or trust may say, that beneficiary designation is going to win.

Jennifer Rozelle: 6:27

And so one of the classic stories that I've talked about on the podcast or my podcast before, was I worked on a case that the gentleman passed away about three or four years ago and he left his ex-spouse listed as beneficiary on his retirement account and life insurance policy and a lot of people would think, oh well, she was the ex, so she doesn't get anything. No, that's not the case. Those funds went to his ex-spouse. What was kind of the even more funky part of that story was that he did have a child and that child was not her child, but the relationship between him and his child very strained, very, very strained. They didn't talk for a number of years. And so when she lawyered up to try to go after those funds from the ex-spouse, you know the ex-spouse's lawyer was like, well, how do you know that he didn't want these funds to go to her? And so you know one of my, my husband, who's also an attorney. He always says estate planning documents are easy. It's the people, the relationships and personalities when they get involved, that's when things go a little funky. So that's what I talk about on Cautionary Tales are all those funky stories that I work on that happen more often than I think people think.

Melissa Joy: 7:58

Yeah, as you were describing those beneficiary designations, I was thinking about a time where we pulled up a beneficiary designation for a client with a multimillion-dollar estate and it was his dead mother who was listed as his beneficiary on his very first 401k. He was very proud because it was kind of a special consulting firm 401k that had some fancy investments and is like well, that's great, but your mom's been deceased for more than 25 years and you've been married for more than 25 years, and so sometimes I find people keep things a little more complicated because they want to, you know, kind of diversify based on location in terms of their accounts, and I just always know that there's a greater potential for you know kind of mistakes or accidents when you have accounts all over the place or you don't frequently log in because it's kind of fix it and forget it. So, yes, definitely like please pull up your beneficiary destinations, not just for your big current 401k, but all those little accounts or life insurance policies that you typically don't look at, so that you know exactly what's in there.

Jennifer Rozelle: 9:07

I always tell people it's a perfect time to say this that I can confirm, as an estate attorney, that there is not some big brother out there, that when you pass away, that I can like secretly pull all your assets, that I can like secretly pull all your assets. So when you talk about, you know, simplifying your, your, all your financials, all of your assets, um, the more organized and simplified you are, the less likely something's going to get missed or messed up. Um, and you know there's a lot of accounts that end up going to, you know, unclaimed property, especially retirement accounts that don't get rolled over and all that sort of good stuff. So, yeah, I can confirm there's no big brother out there, people, that doesn't exist.

Melissa Joy: 9:54

Do your work. This is something where financial adulting is absolutely necessary. Yeah, another area where I think people get surprised and I'm assuming you have a ton of cautionary tales is like you know, the first thing if you're less educated and typical American, thinking about estate planning is like okay, well, I need a will, which typically necessitates probate in most states. Can you talk about some cautionary tales about those who are just like yeah, probate sounds good to me because I'll be dead, it's not my problem.

Jennifer Rozelle: 10:26

Yeah, yeah. So well, two things come to mind. One, there's a whole lot of people that pass away without a will, and there's these funky laws called intestacy laws or intestacy rules that are a built-in estate plan for individuals that die without a will, and in my experience, they are not typically what you would want to have happen with assets. So be very mindful of that. Don't bank on your estate laws to have your back on what your estate plan should look like.

Melissa Joy: 10:59

So for an example, would that be like the spouse gets a portion but not all, and then other relatives are also in the mix, and things like that.

Jennifer Rozelle: 11:09

Yeah. So a perfect example. I'm licensed in Indiana, so you know people will say oh, you know, half goes to your spouse and half goes to your kids, and so a lot of people are like, wait, what? Why would it not all go to your spouse? I'm like, I don't know, talk to our legislators. That's just what the intestacy rules say. So that's a perfect example of what I mean, of not banking on those rules to save the day. Yeah, and then from the other side so say someone does do a will.

Jennifer Rozelle: 11:53

I'm one of those people that I really, truly don't believe that there's this one-size-fits-all estate plan. I'm a firm believer that not every single person needs a trust in this world. There are a lot of attorneys that do believe that, attorneys that do believe that I don't and you know I come from a place of education of okay, if we do just the last will and testament. What people have to understand is if the assets that are passing through that will, every state has like a probate threshold. So like, if I use my state, indiana, for example, our probate threshold is $100,000. So if the assets passing through the will exceed $100,000, we're going through the probate court process. Every state's probate court process is ever so slightly different. Some states are a nightmare come true. Their probate process is awful. Some states probate's not too terrible. But what I always tell people are there three non-negotiables about probate. Regardless of the estate, there's time. What I mean by time is it's not going to happen overnight. Realistically, in Indiana at least, I set the expectation it's going to take about a year.

Melissa Joy: 13:15

And sometimes more. I have a state in Michigan where I think we're in the third calendar year oh yeah, the longest one I ever worked on was six years, so there's no maximum.

Jennifer Rozelle: 13:26

So number one non-negotiable is time. So if that's a concern for people to make sure things are handled very efficiently and quickly well then maybe probate is not going to be your cup of tea. The other two quick non-negotiables are cost and specifically the legal fees associated with those. It cracks me up when lawyers are like, oh, the probate costs? I'm like it's the legal fees, let's just call it what it is. Your executor has to hire a lawyer and so we've kind of monopolized that market in a way. And then the last non-negotiable is public record. Anytime you're going through the court system, it's public record. So if someone wants things to be handled very privately, that's another notch in the let's not go through probate column.

Melissa Joy: 14:10

Absolutely, I agree. And as you were talking through that cautionary tale of just okay, who gets what and you mentioned the kids, Do you have any cautionary tales about people inheriting unconstricted money at a young age like 18 or 19-year-old? Any lessons learned on that?

Jennifer Rozelle: 14:33

Yeah, so two that just popped into my one. Definitely. With that I had a? Um, a case where, uh, there was a beneficiary that was on Medicaid, Um, and unfortunately the person that her mom passed away, and it is very easy to add in language into wills and trusts to support beneficiaries that are on benefits like Medicaid. But we did not do her plan I should make that crystal clear and her will didn't have that language in it, and so the beneficiary inherited her share of the estate. She got kicked off of Medicaid. Medicaid is a beast to apply for and to get approved for, and so it honestly really stunk for her because she got this money that could have otherwise been protected against Medicaid, but then, once she got through it, she had to spend it all down At that point. Then she had to reapply, which was pretty terrible. Then she had to reapply, which was pretty terrible. The other thing that I was thinking of another good cautionary tale, real case was, if we use those intestacy rules you know as that example what I said earlier Um, there was a case that I worked on a few years ago.

Jennifer Rozelle: 15:47

That person passed away and half went to his spouse and half went to his kids, and the next chapter in the story is that the kids were like, oh, you know, that was clearly an oversight by dad. We want our share to go to mom. And you know a lot of people would be like, oh good, Happily ever after. Oh, no, no, no, no. So they, once they received the share of dad's estate, they wanted to gift their share back to mom, who he probably would have wanted things to go to. But what a lot of people don't realize is there's so many things in estate planning world that it's just a bigger thing than people think it is. And so when they gifted things back to mom, we immediately had gift tax considerations, and so they thought they were doing the right thing, and they probably were doing the right thing. But it was kind of one of those Ooh, not so fast, Like it's a longer conversation than you just signing over your share of the estate back over to mom. So that's another good one.

Melissa Joy: 16:49

Yeah, I've seen the. Oh, I've got minor kids, so the guardian is going to be my brother. So then I'll just leave everything to my brother. No, no. You know a lot of like, just like it'll be simpler this way. That just doesn't functionally work, because it's very difficult once something's in your name, you cannot like eliminate your responsibility, for example, for taxes as well as for, you know, gift considerations, and so you've just left a big burden for somebody else.

Jennifer Rozelle: 17:18

Yeah, and like my brain, and maybe it's just because my brain is, like, trained to be cynical. But you know, in that example one, the brother doesn't have to spend it on the kids, like, sure, he may be guardian, but he could be like but you know, in that example one, the brother doesn't have to spend it on the kids, like, sure, he may be guardian, but he could be like oh thanks, I'm resigning as guardian and I'm taking this money and going to Vegas, or their spouse could do the same it might be marital property.

Jennifer Rozelle: 17:42

Totally, and not to mention what happens if that brother passes away and then it's going to, you know, sister-in-law or whoever. So it's things can get messy really quickly, just so very quickly, and it's. I wish it could be easier. I really wish it could be easier because I think that would encourage people, more people, to get their estate plans done. But it's just not. There's just a lot of things to consider and just making sure your ducks in a row and get things done right from the beginning.

Melissa Joy: 18:17

I also think, like in terms of cautionary tale. There's that assumption like oh, if our health starts to diminish or when we get older you mentioned it at the beginning of the episode we'll get a more organized estate plan. We can just do the basics in the beginning, and what I see is like, in terms of capacity, people can have still have very independent capacity, but a lower ability to make decisions or be decisive. And putting things off often means that either unsolicited advice is coming from other members of the family and or there's more potential for conflict, less ability to communicate effectively about what you want.

Jennifer Rozelle: 19:01

So I just yeah, amen to what you just said. I mean, it's one of those things and I see it all the time, melissa where that exact scenario happens and then, whoever the older person is let's call it mom or dad or whoever typically they go into complete analysis, paralysis, because they have all these people in their ear, including the estate attorney. Right, I mean, there's some people in their ear. That's good people to have in their ear, including the estate attorney, right, I mean, there's some people in their ear, that's good people to have in their ear.

Jennifer Rozelle: 19:31

Um, but it's, you know, at the they're at this point in their life where they're they're realizing that, you know, their health is starting to decline, even if it's just ever so slightly. And then they got all these people talking to them about all this different stuff, and then they're just like, ah, I'm done, I, I'm closing, you know I different stuff. And then they're just like, ah, I'm closing, you know, I'm closing off, and their walls go up, and then they don't move, they don't move on anything, and so, and then, typically, what ends up happening? You and I both see this, I'm certain that they don't move. And then 11th hour planning, something is like 911, emergency, and that's when they're boomeranging back to me and you're typically paying someone like me more at that point because we are having to prioritize and get them documents done rushed and it's just yeah, it's a stinky position to be in.

Melissa Joy: 20:23

Yeah, no need for stink when it comes to estate planning. Yeah, no need for stink when it comes to estate planning. I think a lot of those stories, too, are. You know, they're cautionary tales, but with a celebrity twist, so you also do episodes, because there is this lack of privacy when it comes to many parts of estate planning. While you do have the opportunity to protect yourself, many celebrity estates don't have the proper estate planning in order to protect themselves. What are some stories that you pulled up that have really, you know, could have resonated or stick with you when it comes to celebrity estate planning and legalty?

Jennifer Rozelle: 21:02

Yeah, I think the two that pop into my head immediately. One was Aretha Franklin and I think a lot of people um, I mean, that's we're.

Melissa Joy: 21:12

We're based in Michigan, so absolutely that's like top of mind. And yeah, I read all the Detroit Free Press stories about it. Oh yes, yeah.

Jennifer Rozelle: 21:21

So I think the thing people need to remember about celebrities is they are humans too that have a lot of the same issues as we do as everyday people. So, um aretha franklin's family setup was a little unique. Um, I think she had four kids, um one with special needs, um, but very long story short, in her estate she they ended up finding like multiple wills in her house, like written in pencil, right like just sitting around the house one was found in her couch cushion and little insider secret.

Jennifer Rozelle: 21:57

that's the one that they ended up finding is the valid will which happened to write out like disinherit, that special needs, son, um and so you. The lesson learned there is let's not try to write our own will and especially let's not try to keep it in a couch cushion. That's not a secure place. And then the other one that popped into my brain is Kobe Bryant. He actually had a very good estate plan. He had set up a trust to support his spouse and his kiddos, but what I said earlier is so true with him where, when I said that you know, celebrities have the same exact issues as we do.

Jennifer Rozelle: 22:41

So his slip up was he had an awesome estate plan, but his death occurred like don't quote me on this but like six months, maybe less than a year, after his latest daughter, his youngest daughter, had been born. So he had not updated his estate plan to include that youngest daughter, and so vanessa, his wife, had to get the court involved to basically like ask the court to include the youngest daughter as part of his estate plan, which is just a great reminder that you know, estate planning is not a one-time thing. I wish it was a one-time thing but, like in Kobe's estate plan, he probably thought he had more time. He probably he probably knew he needed to get, because he had updated his trust every time after a new child and he just did not.

Melissa Joy: 23:31

Did the trust include provisions saying additional errors?

Jennifer Rozelle: 23:37

Okay, I'd have to say no, because she had to get the court. Because if it had said that she wouldn't have had to get the court involved, right, that is a typical if you're listening and like, oh my gosh, am I okay?

Melissa Joy: 23:50

Yeah, many trusts which are very effective when you have issues of guardianship as well as minor children. I'm a huge advocate of like age. 18 should not be the birthday the day that you get a million dollars in a bank account with your full control, and so many documents, at least, are typically written with consideration for additional errors. But if you're a celebrity where you might have be concerned about, you know, false accusations of paternity, that might be a reason that you would be skeptical and want to name them one at a time.

Jennifer Rozelle: 24:34

Yeah, yeah, great point. I never came across that in my research, but that would make a lot of because. Another little plug I think it was Prince or Michael Jackson, I can't remember which one, but there were a ton of people that came out of the woodwork in one of theirs estate to say like, oh, I'm the long lost sibling or long lost child. And there was all this, you know, dna testing that had to be done to confirm or deny, I should say, because I don't think any of them were actually related. But great point. That's like very likely why he did that.

Melissa Joy: 25:03

Well, and you know, just thinking about these tales, in both cases they paid attorneys, because I know in the Aretha Franklin case there was a team who were her attorneys, but there is. You know, I always think of the concept of 100 and 100 when it comes to financial planning, estate planning, so many professional engagements, it's up to both of you and if you have a team that you're paying but you don't follow through on executing documents, if you're not clearly communicating, if you're doing things on the side, there's a limit as a professional to how much you can come and save the day when you either don't know, don't have full cooperation, you know meetings keep getting canceled or rescheduled and things like that.

Melissa Joy: 25:46

So, you know, I kind of sometimes measure the estate planners I work with who, full disclosure, aren't Jenny, because you need to work with someone in your state. So it's important in terms of location, what they specialize in. It should be the state you live in. And then also, I hear so many times like, oh, my dad's best friend is an attorney and you have no idea what type of law they practice and they'll do you a favor. You might save a little money, but it might cost you in the long run. So you know, it's just so important to have the right person on the team and follow through. So some attorneys I'm like, I feel like maybe they don't create a process that makes it more effective to follow through, because it's kind of on you to follow up, and so the batting average of executed documents is one of the things I measure.

Jennifer Rozelle: 26:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that one of my favorite sayings in the world is you can lead someone to the water, but it's up to them to drink it, and I couldn't agree with you more that there's, you know, people like you and I can only take people so far, and then it's up to them to really take the baton, and we'll help them carry it, but we can't be the only one that carries it. And that's so true with both of our perspectives, from financial and estate planning. It's so very true. Well, speaking of that, there's so much demand for estate planning.

Melissa Joy: 27:08

It's still very true. Well, speaking of that, there's so much demand for estate planning. I bet like more than half of our audience listening is like, oh, there's something I should tweak. I think and this is like I don't know the answer is 100% true, but I think you've commented on digital services that include estate planning, so you probably have heard commercials for Trust and Will. If you're a listener, celebrities are endorsing that type of more simplified estate planning. A tool that financial advisors use is Vanilla as well as Wealthcom. What are your thoughts? Because I have. Well, I'm curious to hear yours and then I'll share mine.

Jennifer Rozelle: 27:46

Yeah, I, I am like a unicorn in the legal profession. I feel like everything I say and do tends to be the opposite of what most attorneys say and do, which you know what bodes well for me. So I'm just going to keep owning it. Absolutely no excuse for the amount, the statistic. I think it's like 50% or greater of people that die without an estate plan. There's so many. There's even like services out there that will do estate planning for free for you know, very low income, very low asset folks, and so I think what these services are offering are just more access, and I'm going to be an advocate for that. Just more access, and I'm going to be an advocate for that.

Jennifer Rozelle: 28:37

What I would say is what I would want people to know and understand is utilizing those services. You just have to understand that you're sacrificing the level of counseling and accountability like we were just talking about in relationship that an attorney is going to be able to give to you, um, and so again, coming from a place of education and not like a fear tactic, is, as long as people understand that piece, then if they elect to go through a service like that, then do it, do it, um, otherwise, if they're like you know what? You know I do value a relationship I do value you know, you know more handholding, I do value that sort of stuff. Then maybe you do need to look into like going through an attorney but yeah, I'm fine with them, I'm totally fine. But I know a lot of attorneys are like man, they're so bad.

Melissa Joy: 29:27

I see, I have a attorney friend who I've mentioned. You know, hey, we have a subscription to one of the services and I just saw her eyes bug out just like you're evil and to me. I mean I always start with like I want you to call an attorney as a follow up to this conversation.

Melissa Joy: 29:45

And in most locations, because I have clients around the country, we can find somebody. There are some cases where I can't because, you know, it's just like beyond my scope and it's also not my responsibility to find the estate planner and in some cases I'd given the name, like three years in a row and we're still sitting with no documents and like very real estate planning needs as well, as you know, amounts of money in the estate.

Melissa Joy: 30:10

And in that case I'm like absolutely it would be better to have something versus nothing and I'll still advocate for you to, you know, have the nuance of a plan with an attorney and in other cases, especially if you have a more complex estate, you know, picking up the phone to an estate planning attorney who's used to dealing with people with 10 to 20 million in assets, when you're a new client, they may not have time for you the first week and if you have minor children or close to a taxable estate like I think those documents might be better as a placeholder until you get the appointment. I mean, a lot of times it could take six months to get documents in place, depending on how long you take to decide and the attorney's availability.

Melissa Joy: 30:54

So it's not all black and white. And the same goes with investments and financial services as well.

Jennifer Rozelle: 31:01

Yeah, I think that's a perfect way to say it is. There's no black and white, and as long as people are educated in their decisions from there, that's their decision. It's not my decision, it's not your decision, it's their decision. And I just come from a place of I'll educate you of what the options are and from there it's your decision to make.

Melissa Joy: 31:21

So yeah, I have a little bit of a need. They are certainly not going to eliminate the need for attorneys in the world and I would love the percentage of people that have documents in place to be hired.

Jennifer Rozelle: 31:32

I would love the percentage of people that have documents in place to be hired. Yes, yes, exactly, and that's exactly why I'm fine with it. I'm like those services are getting documents in the hands of more people, and there's no denying that.

Melissa Joy: 31:44

So, yeah, well, as we wrap up, I want to make sure again people check out your podcast, the Legal Tea Podcast, and also you wrote a chapter in a book from an author who we had as a guest on the podcast Also Christine Benz, who wrote a fantastic book called how to Retire. Have you been hearing from people reading the chapter? Because I loved it and I was like, oh my gosh, another podcast guest. So fun.

Jennifer Rozelle: 32:10

Yes, I've had so many people comment both like publicly and privately. They'll send me messages. I even had my brother-in-law's mom text me because Christine either Christine or her book was on some TV show. I can't, I should have looked it up. But my brother-in-law's mom was like, is this you? Because they were like mentioning like who contributed to some of the chapters and I was like, yep, that's me. So, yeah, a fantastic book. She's a fantastic lady. I could not be more honored to be in her book.

Melissa Joy: 32:49

Well, jenny, I loved your chapter and that book is great. It's a great gift for anybody pondering retirement early into retirement because it's so multifunctional. Every chapter is from a different point of view about retirement. Some of it's about how are you going to spend your time, make sure your legal affairs are in order. What about the taxes?

Jennifer Rozelle: 33:07

Things like that, very holistic.

Melissa Joy: 33:08

Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's going to have a lot of legs and you'll be running into people who've read your chapter for years to come.

Jennifer Rozelle: 33:16

Maybe I should start getting ready for some autographs there, you go.

Melissa Joy: 33:20

If we ever see each other in person, I'll have my book with me. Oh perfect. Well, where can people find you if they want to continue to hear your authentic and relatable voice when it comes to estate planning? You, if they want to continue to hear your authentic and relatable voice when it comes to estate planning.

Jennifer Rozelle: 33:33

Yeah, professionally, people are welcome to check out my website, indianaestateelderlawcom, but I'm a little bit more informal on my Twitter. Yes, it's always going to be Twitter, elon Musk may come at me.

Melissa Joy: 33:47

I refuse to change.

Jennifer Rozelle: 33:48

Yes, I don't like change. I'm on there quite often. I love contributing content on that platform as well as, of course, my podcast, which I try to make this whole estate and elder law space. The content delivered in a fun way and not in this, like you know, charlie Brown's teacher. Yeah like the opposite of that. That's what I'm aiming for. So, yeah, any of those outlets.

Melissa Joy: 34:17

Well, I think you're nailing it with what you're aiming for. You're hitting the bullseye and, jenny, we're so glad to have you on the podcast. Thanks for joining. Yes, thank you. Thank you for listening to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. If you found value in this episode, the best way you can support the podcast is to forward an episode to a friend or leave a review. Go to pearlplancom and the podcast link to get all the resources and links mentioned.