Women's Money Wisdom

Episode 240: What You Need to Know About Menopause and Your Money with Julia Carreon

• Melissa Joy, CFP® • Season 4 • Episode 240

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The financial and economic impact of menopause is often overlooked, but the numbers are staggering. With 75 million American women in menopause and more than two-thirds of them active in the workplace, the Mayo Clinic reports productivity losses of $1.8 billion and related health care costs reaching an additional $24 billion.

In this episode of the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast, Melissa Joy, CFP®, CDFA®, welcomes back friend of the show, Julia Carreon. Together, they explore the stigma surrounding menopause and emphasize the importance of taking control of your health and finances before and during menopause. Melissa and Julia also share personal insights on career pivots they’ve made that coincided with health transitions, shedding light on the intersection between menopause, career, and financial well-being.

This episode is an invaluable resource for women navigating menopause and for those who support them, including partners, family members, employers, and even financial planners.

Listen and Learn: 

  • The economic impact of menopause on women in the workforce and healthcare costs. 
  • Why it's crucial to take control of your financial and physical well-being before and during menopause. 
  • The importance of addressing the stigma around menopause in the workplace. 

Resources: 

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner and the founder of Pearl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show.

Speaker 2:

Hey everybody, I am so excited for our topic today and, just before we get started, I want to let you know that if you're at a risk because we're going to be talking about a topic that is kind of taboo in conversation, we just don't get around to it. Menopause topic that is kind of taboo in conversation, we just don't get around to it. Menopause for guests that are like, well, I'm not that age or we love our loyal male listeners as well, and you're like no, I, you know, I'm out. No, please listen in, because this is a topic that, if you're not going to go through it in your lifetime or are going through it today, someone you care about is whether it's your mom, your partner, your siblings, people that are important to you, and I think this is going to be an empowering episode. We're not talking, we're not doctors here, but we're people that are passionate about getting the word out, and so let's get started on this important topic.

Speaker 2:

My guest today is Julia Carrion. She is a passionate leader and executive in financial and technology and she has been if you follow her social media. She's masked us of the podcast. She came and talked about Gen Z disruption, but she is really authentically talking about what it's like to be a Gen X or older millennial woman. Go through menopause, health issues associated and actually some of the economic impacts. So, julia, welcome to the podcast.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 2:

Well, I've learned a lot from you and I will tell you. Two or three years ago I was like because I asked my doctor I'm just full disclosure, 49 years old and I would ask my doctors but I don't go to the doctor very often like do I even know anything about menopause? And it was like, no, just it just happens, but you don't have symptoms yet. Blah, blah, blah. Um, I was chewed up from people like you, my friend Sharon Hoy, who has a great podcast, um, like maybe I should be asking more questions, especially after I started to experience some symptoms that were difficult and disruptive to my life, that I come to find out are associated with menopause. Can you talk to me a little bit about? I know you've done some sharing, but what's your journey to you know, kind of before and after of understanding?

Speaker 3:

Sure. So look, I mean, I went through menopause early due to a stressful situation and I was completely unaware that it was happening to me. I went into menopause at around 45, 46, and not a lot of people know that you typically follow your mother and my mother didn't have menopause until she was 55. So I was a decade earlier than her. It was horrible. I gained 25 pounds, I did not look like myself and I was severely depressed.

Speaker 3:

And it turns out, melissa, that this is a common way that women experience menopause, whether it's early or later. We go through it without doctors advocating for us. It so happens that the average OBGYN only gets an hour of menopause training at medical school, and then the compounds that you need. The most common way to get treatment is hormone replacement therapy. They get almost no training on what to even prescribe a woman. We can talk about why. I think that's why data-driven solutions via online health, telehealth is really where we see the future of the business going.

Speaker 3:

But just a couple of statistics 75 million women are in menopause in the United States right now. There are 6,000 women a day who enter menopause. The annual global economic loss related to symptoms and the lack of proactive healthcare around it, according to Bloomberg, is $150 billion a year. And then one last statistic is only 7% of eligible women are getting treatment for menopause today, assuming that let's just say. Let's just say probably 90% of us are eligible to have treatment and only 7% of us are. And it's for the exact same reason that you already mentioned, which is you went to your doctor and they basically said suck it up, which is what most women are being told. And, frankly, we are being put on antidepressants more often than we are given HRT, when we would just feel better if we got hormone replacement therapy and then we might not need antidepressants. So I think we are about to enter a huge wave of awareness, destigmatizing the word and then tackling this to your point taboo subject out loud. I think we're really at the cusp of a huge wave.

Speaker 2:

Well with people like us, because as soon as, like, kind of the wheels started turning for me, I was like, oh, I know it's going to come to me and tell me anything. I need to really start researching and advocating and I will tell you I'm early on my journey. But I want to get the word out and I want to start normalizing talking with your friends about these things, saying, hey, have you heard of this? And it would be caused by menopause, just as we're starting this? Or well, first of all, your numbers were astounding, but I want people to understand if you are menopausal, that means you have not had her period for 12 months and heri-menopause is prior to that time, when you are experiencing hormone changes and kind of getting ready or, you know, entering that stage, but you're still having your period, um, so you know, uh, that I I don't even think we define what we're talking about all the time and you're just kind of like tiptoeing around a subject that is going to be really impactful when it comes to, um, your, your well-being and also your economic health.

Speaker 2:

This is a financial podcast and the numbers are astounding when you think of those billions of dollars, but those are billions of dollars that are impacting people. They're impacting people individually. Not only is it depression, but also many women get diagnosed with ADHD during their late 40s or early 50s, during menopause, and there just is not research on what the associations are. 99% of studies on aging are excluding and do not take menopause into consideration, according to a 2024 article. So we're just not getting the details. And you know, add to those visible symptoms such as frozen shoulder, you know, pop flashes, discomfort, things that can be when you're only treating what you're reacting to, you're going to a ton of specialists and just put a band-aid on it for your problem.

Speaker 3:

Exactly. And look, I mean the other part of it and the lack of education to your point and awareness of what it even is. I'm telling you, 100% of people that I have surveyed don't know this. So if you are getting fertility treatments and you are harvesting your eggs, which an increasing number of millennials and Gen Z intend to do, you are putting yourself into early menopause. And a hundred percent of women that I know that are doing this were not told by their fertility doctor that they should be thinking about potentially replacing their lost hormones early. So I mean, just the misinformation and lack of awareness is astounding and it is not doing women any favors and, as you know, I have a huge amount of passion for women in general. And then making sure that, look, I'm not saying that every woman has to have the same treatment or the same number of women, like in my case going on hormone replacement therapy was transformative. Not every woman has to do that, but at least know your options right and a lot of women are not even given those options.

Speaker 2:

That's true and you know, one of the reasons that sometimes our grandmothers got hormones but we are our mothers is because of studies that were done with some cancer association, especially breast cancer, but those studies weren't followed up on and there may be reasons that it would not be appropriate for you to receive HRT. But having a conversation with a menopause educated physician, which is often a gynecologist, but it's a special subset and you really have to go look for them and it's like there is one gynecologist in the large OB practice, obgyn practice that I always gone to since I have my kids who is educated on this. She's the only one and she's not advertising it because she would be inundated. So you know you have to really go and look for the people that are going to talk to you about it. My general practice said most of the information I learned was because of research my father-in-law did for my mother-in-law about symptoms that she had that were 20 years too late to treat.

Speaker 2:

So you know, and it's not her fault, that's just the way that the medical, you know kind of training goes is it's like male centric and reproductive centric versus post and aging for women, 100%. Well, tell me, because you have such a unique perspective, you have the personal experiences, you have the passionate communicative voice and you're so locked into generations. And then you have this technology background. It's just the perfect fit. So tell me some of the things that you're seeing that you think may be avenues that our listeners need to be aware of and keep an eye out for.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So look, I mean, the most transformative thing that's going to happen is destigmatizing the word and then having it become contagious to your point, like you're doing. This topic on your podcast will be one more drop in the ocean of people not being afraid to have. The conversation Sally Krawcheck just posted on LVEST about menopause is going to be a word that you can say in the workplace and it's going to be expected, and she went viral. And then Joanna Struber at Midi Health is also.

Speaker 3:

People have said that she started sharing her personal experiences on LinkedIn because of me, because she saw that I was doing it, which is very funny. I don't know. The reality is is that more women are coming out and saying this is a natural change of life. So here's what I think is going to happen Because there is so little data to your point, those studies are so old and they're so outdated and they have not done a lot of scientific research on that. I believe that these online startups that are able to use AI to mine data in a statistically significant way and mine health protocols and prescriptions in a way that is meaningful, we'll be able to see kind of more appropriate and less conservative treatments that are out there for women and I think we are in front of a very big sea change.

Speaker 3:

The firms that are out there that are doing it well is Winona, evernow and MidiHealth are the three that I would tell your listeners if you are struggling to get a doctor to pay attention to you. My girlfriend here in Austin has been to six doctors and nobody will help her, and they use the fact that she's type one diabetic as a reason to just say she doesn't get to qualify for anything at Hello, which is actually probably not true. So what I would encourage people to do is to go look at those healthcare companies, because they have to have a physician in charge. You often have to see a clinician either way and remember they have access to data. That has never right. If you think about the marketplace, you've had doctors that are captive in communities that have access to very limited information and they have very likely never mined their data to figure out what's working at scale.

Speaker 2:

And these companies have that. They don't. It's not their fault, they don't.

Speaker 3:

Exactly so. I think that's a huge opportunity to lean into tech, ai and data to see this space really transform.

Speaker 2:

I really think it is going to come from those sides. I have a good friend who's an executive at a regional insurer health insurer and she works on programming and was talking about just what you said, julia the economic impact of menopause and creating a program that could be subscribed to by an employer so that you had menopause care through a program versus through your individual positions. The insurers know, because they see the economic impact is real to them. They'll have more reactive, more costly health care if you're not treating the root causes for what somebody needs for their well-being. And our bodies just are not built to not have the hormones. We did not live as long in the past and we're not built to be without some of these hormones.

Speaker 3:

Exactly and look. The one other thing that I think we'll see is I think we are seeing a wave. Mckinsey calls it the great breakup. Women over 45 are exiting the workplace. The IP that is walking out the door for these major corporations is significant, and yesterday I was with three major VCs in Austin at a breakfast. Three men were talking about this as an issue and like what venture opportunities are they seeing to lean into? Making sure that we have, we can fill the gap and keep women in the workplace? So I think there is a huge perfect storm for women to lean in here, for men to lean into it.

Speaker 3:

And to your point, originally, it's not a dirty word. I have never seen a room scatter faster than when I started talking about menopause when I turned 50 and was having such a horrible place. People get embarrassed by it and I really find it baffling because it's a change of life similar to puberty, and the room doesn't scatter. When you say that your 13-year-old son is in puberty. Everybody wants to hang around and make fun of how crazy your 13-year-old is and how funny they can be. Let's just have the same kind of humor about it, because it isn't. It isn't a dirty word.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely and it it. We don't have the studies, but I I firmly believe, seeing anecdotal information, that care management for transitions such as menopause will impact our human capital. So our ability to earn, our ability to be comfortable and happy in the workplace, our ability to advocate for ourselves and our well-being can truly keep you employed longer. And so I see this as a financial planner in two ways. One, just like mental health care in general, that whether you're a male or female practitioner of financial planning, you should be comfortable bringing up these topics if you're really dealing with somebody's whole life and not just their investments. And you know, let's say it takes a practice right, like that's not something any of us are comfortable bringing up. That may be a surprise for our clients, but I think it should be something where you're comfortable saying it's okay to invest in some research on your own well-being, and it may be specific to these issues. But two I have a lot of people who would really just are not being filled up by their careers and we're retiring them early because they're done with it. They're done with the rat race. They're also not feeling respected or you know kind of they're being put upon.

Speaker 2:

I think generationally I've really always deleted checks.

Speaker 2:

Women are people pleasers and you just get to the point where you cannot do it for one more day.

Speaker 2:

You know you're to use the words of a country song your give and dams are all out, and you know long your give and dams are all out and you know you can insert your own expletive there. But you just you know, and I'm happy to retire those people and transition them to a higher quality of life. But if you're looking at it from an employer perspective, if you're looking from it from an economic perspective, that loss of economic output, that loss of the intellectual property, as you're saying, is it's not perfect to just bring those people out and the ones that can leave and the rest of them just plod along and quiet quit. So you know, I really think that a societal commitment to better care and understanding and longevity of careers and longevity of professional relationships is really important, and we both got through career transitions ourselves, so we experienced it. I think neither of us would assume at 40 that we'd be sitting in the seats we're in today. Thank God I'm not in, you know, elsewhere.

Speaker 3:

No, and look, I think I do think that the the impact of it on families is is more significant than people will talk about. I did a menopause post on LinkedIn and a young man who was in his late 20s reached out to me on DMs and it made me cry. He said I watched what happened to my mom DMs and it made me cry. He said I watched what happened to my mom. His mom went through severe depression during menopause and it had a negative effect on the entire family when he was in late high school and he said to this day, my mom is not the same and I think if somebody had been able to help her, he said, then our whole family's wellbeing would have been better. So it is a conversation that that doesn't just impact your mom or your dad. It it, it. It impacts your kids and and having them be aware of it I think is is healthy, um and and good.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely so. This is, this is something that like. Hopefully this episode can go viral. I hope, more than almost any other episode, that we can kind of get the word out and in our resources we will include links to show notes and things like that. I would mention, by the way, that there was a big push for medical research in the winter last year. I heard about it actually because I have a friend who's an advisor, who has a client who was instrumental in this push and announcement the Biden administration to put more dollars for researching women throughout their life, and I'll tell you.

Speaker 2:

I'll include links to the show notes. But the press briefing and a fact sheet from the White House indicated it said the word menopause 14 times in the document. So that's hopeful, but it's decades of research, right, like we are catching up on, you know, just women's economic power and our leadership. The voices haven't been in the room for us. You know, basically like studies happened on a group of males and then the medical research was applied to us. Maybe, you know, you assume that we weigh a little less, so the prescription or dosage or recommendation might be a little smaller. But you know we really need to be thinking about the voices in the room and consideration, for you know what experiences you're going through, not just your dollars and cents 100%.

Speaker 2:

So you've experienced career transition too. In fact, I know that this episode is cut. We're recording the summer, this episode's coming out in the fall and maybe even by then you're really looking for your next step. It may be that some of this conversation is woven into your next job. I know you're a hot commodity, so who knows where you'll end. But tell me a little bit about and I really think this relates to menopause and just aging in women but your kind of career transitions and what you think prepared you to be able to make different decisions or, you know, to pivot.

Speaker 3:

I'm going to try not to cry because I just really think this is such an important topic and I think it also relates to women's lived experiences. So I have been the primary wage earner for my family for 18 years because my husband decided to take a step back to help with the kids, because I had a very busy job and I was on this wheel of more, more, more, more, more power, influence, spans of control.

Speaker 2:

You know, managing budgets, hundreds of people in 13 states, and it's so much of your identity when you're living that job, whether you want it to be or not, but it, you know, it validates each promotion or each you know kind of atta girl, validates you and and builds an identity that may not be, as you know, like as as easy to integrate into your home life, and things like that.

Speaker 3:

So I and just let the same hysteria so no, it it is, and and I think so, when I was 44, I was at my peak of thinking that I just wanted to um, climb the corporate ladder endlessly right and rule the world. Yeah, and I found myself recently, in the last few years, at a very, very influential job on Wall Street with a huge budget, lots of perceived corporate power, let's put it that way. At the same time not a lot of people know this I was being recruited for the same job at double the pay at an investment bank. That I will keep quiet. This is just in May and I was kind of in this washing machine of stuff going on that I can't really talk about too candidly. But what was happening is that I hit a wall of realizing, hit a wall of realizing, so I was about to say yes to the investment bank at twice the pay.

Speaker 1:

To doubling down.

Speaker 3:

And double. You said it better than me, friend. I was going to double down on the same old thing and I realized that I didn't want the same old thing anymore. I realized that going back into that washing machine felt and sounded awful. I was getting my phone was blowing up with people saying that the toxicity of the culture was of of where I was was bad, and then going to where I was was even worse. And your model, your mind is, is hardwired to think that's my only choice, right Like I have to keep doing that because I'm on this treadmill and the treadmill isn't going to stop. And then, for me, imposter syndrome hit where I'm like, oh my God, if I don't say yes to that next thing that I can see in front of me, that's tangible, I'm never going to work again.

Speaker 3:

And that really happened to me, I swear.

Speaker 2:

Well, in the unspoken words probably, the little voices in your mind are who am I without this too?

Speaker 1:

At least in my world. For me 100%.

Speaker 2:

And that achievement orientation. When you hit one thing, you just start climbing to the next thing. There's a lack of like. Let's take a pause and is this sustainable? Or is this what you would choose if you could change something?

Speaker 3:

100%, and you know what I love. You're just always so great at hitting the analogy on the head too, you go. This is like um. I'm just going to say this. I have a very big presence on LinkedIn and I am very well right Like the, the. I was told by an executive at Microsoft that they watch my account because I have higher engagement per the size of my account than almost anybody in financial services and I so part of me was like wow. My ego would love to say that I bounced to one of the most high profile banks on Wall Street and got the global head of transformation job. My ego was very much to your point about identity, looking for that. You know that immediate high Almost like. You know like I was a crack addict, like dopamine hit dopamine hit a hundred percent and.

Speaker 3:

I thank God, exactly Thank God. I thank God. I took a step back and decided not to do that and and I am figuring out what I'm going to do next I took the summer and what I hope women that are listening to this, especially because you know I have, and I know you have men who I love, my male allies.

Speaker 2:

So I don't need to leave them behind.

Speaker 3:

They're the best. I do love to say that my biggest advocates at my career have all been men, so I'm so grateful. But for the women out there that are really afraid of what does that look like? I just want to tell them you're going to be okay.

Speaker 2:

I had a coach shortly before I left my last firm and I hope I mentioned this in other episodes. But she said, because things were rocky. And she said, well, okay, let's say what's the worst thing that could happen. Melissa was like, well, I could, you know, no longer have a job, be fired? And she was like, well, what, tell me what? How bad would your life be then? Like, would you be okay? Can you put food on the table? I mean, it is absolutely.

Speaker 2:

I will tell the 30 year olds listening you know, don't assume that what you think in the next 20 years are going to look like are always going to be the case, because it could be a big career transition or changing relationship status or divorce often happens at this time period as well, and the stronger financial foundation is, the more choices you have and the more you can take care of yourself and the people that you love.

Speaker 2:

But if I can write a note to that woman as we're passing our six year anniversary of being a much smaller company, I will say that it did take me some time to detox from that.

Speaker 2:

You know, having worked on singular goals at a singular organization for many, many years, figuring out who I wanted to be as a founder and solo business owner. Building a new organization with a different point of view took a while because in the beginning it was just like, well, I didn't spend my whole life planning to opt out of the former life, but it is so much more integrated into you know my family's life and you know my home life and I'm able to operate a business in the same place that I live and things like that. So you know just know, that if you're in a bad spot, you can change that, and you know whether it's a career coach or a financial planner or a team. Break up the topic, say what would it look like if I did something different? Or you know and and do rely on that network. I think that's something we have in common.

Speaker 3:

Julia is like our network is our life force to keep us safe and protected oh my god, that we could talk about that for decades, like I think you and I talked about that on our last podcast about my growing my network on LinkedIn. It has. It has saved my bacon and, and what I would tell my future self when I was 30 is that I should have done it sooner. So to your younger listeners 100% invest in the network outside of, like the four walls of whatever you're doing for work, like you know, if you're in a captive organization.

Speaker 3:

Go out there and find a way to leverage social media to grow your network, Because the network effect of what's happening for me right now I have more opportunities than I know what to do with and they are wildly different than what I was expecting and they are so energizing and fit with my future purpose in a way that my corporate job did not, and I'm just so grateful.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I had the exact same experience, and I, too, am a LinkedIn believer. I will tell you, I do personal stuff on Twitter, but LinkedIn really has been both a business builder and network connector. So much for me, and I had the same. I chose to start a company from scratch, but the feedback that I got from people that are important to me of like you can work here, you can do this without even really being able to publicly telegraph that I was even looking was huge, and you know, just knowing you know that network is so important, and I think you know the lesson learned from this episode, and I'm so glad we've been able to talk about both a taboo topic, menopause as well as our personal experiences and how they impact our careers.

Speaker 2:

The bottom line is like we are not cookies, we are not cookie cutter, we're not all gingerbread men that are shaped the same. You need to be an advocate, whether it's for your money or your health or I hope both and you know, getting real at this age is just what we really need to hear, and I hope that our listeners are going to share this with their notes, because I know these conversations, whether they're about career management and the fact that you don't have to accept an unacceptable situation or the same thing. Don't gaslight yourself when it comes to your medical needs just because other people haven't done the research to know what you may be going through. You are in charge. You are Luke Skywalker and you need to find the right notice to whisper in your ear Love it Well, julia.

Speaker 2:

I know we'll be having these conversations again. I can't wait to hear what you are doing next and we will make sure that people are following your LinkedIn. We'll have that in the follow-up. Is there any place else that people should connect with you? I know you said that Hal Herstalt's research and books are really important to read. What other resources should people check out?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, look, I would just say that I love Hal Hirschfeld's your Future Self. I think that that's a really important book. And then if you're going through menopause or you are in your 40s, I would just say don't be in denial about the fact that this is going to happen. Don't let it happen to you as an accident. Be in charge, go out and do the research online. You've got some great resources out there medical communities that can help you.

Speaker 2:

And I just want to say Dr Mary Claire on Instagram is the most important menopause follow, follow, I think at all so yes, I agree, and I will include a podcast episode where I really learned a lot of the symptoms and information, where she was a guest, because she is really doing the work of getting the word out. So, yep, thanks so much, julia.

Speaker 3:

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for listening to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. If you found value in this episode, the best way you can support the podcast is to forward an episode to a friend or leave a review. Go to pearlplancom and the podcast link to get all the resources and links mentioned.

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Melissa Joy, CFP

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