Ep 337: Retirement Myths, Busted: What Financial Planners Really Think About Retirement with Stephanie McCullough

Retirement talk tends to fixate on a magic number, but Melissa Joy, CFP®, and fellow financial planner and podcaster Stephanie McCullough argue the real work happens well before and long after that number is reached. In this candid conversation, the two planners compare notes on what they see in their own practices: clients who retire on a fixed rule of thumb only to discover it doesn't flex with real life, retirees who under-spend out of fear even when the plan says they can afford more, and families quietly overwhelmed by aging parents' finances, unspoken inheritances, and adult children who haven't yet launched.

Melissa and Stephanie also dig into the myths that shape how people think about retirement long before they get there, from the outdated idea that retirement equals age sixty-five, to the belief that a portfolio should get more conservative simply because a client is getting older. 

They close with a rapid-fire round covering the most overrated retirement rule of thumb, the most underestimated expense, and what people should and shouldn't be losing sleep over, before reflecting on how their own work with retirees has shaped how they each plan to retire themselves.

What You'll Learn

• Why the idea that retirement equals age sixty-five is outdated, and how ageism, layoffs, and longer lifespans complicate that math
• Why Melissa and Stephanie now encourage many clients to spend more, not less, in the early years of retirement
• The difference between a plan “failing” and a plan needing adjustment, and why that framing matters
• Why the four percent rule and age-based portfolio allocation are two of the most overrated pieces of retirement conventional wisdom
• The most underestimated retirement expenses, including Medicare surcharges (IRMAA) and dental care
• How to navigate family conversations about aging parents' finances, inheritance, and adult children who still rely on financial support
• Why having a plan for aging in place, or choosing not to, is one of the most overlooked parts of retirement planning
• Why even confident self-managed investors need a transition plan for handing off financial management as they age

The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only.  No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https...

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome

Welcome And Important Disclosures

SPEAKER_01 0:01

to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner and the founder of Pearl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence, and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money, and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show. Stephanie McCullough offers investment advice through Private Advisor Group, a federally registered investment advisor. The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations to any individual. To determine which strategies or investments may be suitable for you, consult the appropriate qualified professional prior to making a decision.

Why Retirement Myths Persist

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Welcome back to the Women's Money Wisdom podcast. You know, when we talk about retirement, those episodes are always very popular. I know that they are on our listeners' minds because so many of you are Gen X, older millennial women, and people. I get feedback from all sorts of people that listen to the podcast. And today we're going to talk about retirement myths. We're going to talk about how two financial planners who think about retirement a lot think behind the numbers. And I have one of my friends and favorite fellow podcasters, Stephanie McCullough, who is joining us today to have that discussion. Stephanie is the founder of Sophia Financial, and she is the co-host of Take Back Retirement, which is a great podcast. I also love Stephanie's content on Instagram. Stephanie, welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Melissa. I'm so excited for this conversation. Well, we've been talking about this conversation for more than a year. Every time I see you at a conference, I'm like, we should. And then I feel like you're busy and doing amazing things. And that probably holds me back from sending that, you know, like link to record. So I'm so glad we're doing this now.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah, me too. I feel like you're the same doing amazing things out there. We need more of us doing it.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

It's a mutual admiration society, but I saw one of your Instagram posts. You're doing great, like um little clips and content about what retirement really is. There's this like community, but it's like mainly guys who are like, hey, you need to like really like get used to what retirement's gonna look like, and it's not just the numbers. But we need more female voices saying the same thing because we both know it. That's the case. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

Yeah. And, you know, doing this financial planning work for 29 years now, right? I'm an older Gen Xer. I'm 59. And I have to say, every time I get together with friends or family members around my age, this is part of the conversation. Like, when are you thinking about retiring or what does retirement look like? Or I have no desire to retire. Like it's a hot topic on people's minds.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Yeah. Between that and like with my community, I'm 51, like the menopause realities of like just like, hey, you've got to go ask about this or that or the other. Like the conversations have changed.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Totally. And I used to have to think about like, all right, I got to remember what these people's kids are up to. And now I have to remember, are their parents still with us? Are their parents in care? Are there someone in memory care? There's just so much more that we're all dealing with. And that we want to support our friends and clients around.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Well, you are speaking to my drumbeat on the podcast, the messy money middle, how we're not as well prepared as we need to be, how the role of financial professionals can be something of a proactive preparer, an integrator, a connector, um, preparing you for that messy money middle. Um, and I think like one of the things that just re like holds true to me is like we're focusing on the wrong things when it comes to retirement. Yeah. Or maybe just not enough. So, what do you think, like, especially as you've, you know, gone on this journey with your podcast, what do you think people miss? You know, like what are we too focused on and what is what is underrepresented in the retirement conversation?

Myth Of Retiring At 65

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Well, one of the things that's bugged me for a while is people still, or maybe it's like a cultural idea that retirement equals age 65. Yes. And I think that airs on on two fronts, right? Research shows a lot of people retire or are forced to retire are either by health or by layoffs. Hello, ageism is real, um, earlier than 65 and they have to reinvent or do something. And of course, a lot of us want to stay active and engaged and vibrant and doing something and feeling, you know, connected with the world and making an impact. Plus, longevity is real, right? Even though all my clients say, I don't want to live that long. Oh, well, that's nice. Someone's gonna live to be 113. Most of us are gonna live much longer than, you know, even our grandparents did. Looking back at how your parents and grandparents aged is not necessarily how we're gonna age. So given the reality that we're gonna live a long time after 65, does it make sense financially, but also for lifestyle to just not work after that time?

Purpose And Identity After Work

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Yeah, I agree. And like there's also this this um for people like myself, I don't want to put you in in that group, but like what is your purpose if if or when you retire? Yeah. Because your identity is so connected to where you you go to work if you have a passion for it.

unknown 5:38

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

You have to think about yes, what am I gonna do with my days, but yeah, how am I gonna find meaning? How am I gonna find purpose and you know feel like getting up in the morning? And okay, maybe your job wasn't exactly what you would like, but it it gave you purpose in some way or other. I mean, I feel like some of my clients, they know exactly what they've been wanting to do. Yeah. And others are a little bit kind of up in the air. Or when faced with it, they haven't really thought through, oh, I might experiment with that, or I might like to try this. I think it's one of those areas where preparing, maybe doing little experiments, having conversations, right? Deep introspective conversations can only help.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

It's true. And I see some families that are like that is the goal. Like when you say what's your retirement goals, they come to you in their 40s and they're like, we are retiring at age 60, whatever the case may be. Yeah. Um, and it's like they're both locked in, they're both ready to go. Somebody's kind of been like, they've got the spreadsheet, maybe they're engineers. A lot of them are. Um, but you know, like there's that dynamic, but that's rare as far as I'm concerned. I see a lot where, you know, maybe there's dissatisfaction with one person's career, and the other is really that, you know, like this is this is who I am. Um, and so then, you know, like there may be a presumption that they both need to work until the same age, which doesn't necessarily need to be the case. Right.

Why Planning Must Start Early

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Um, or it's just like something. I'll use an example from um, I got a text message a few days ago, and it was uh the husband of a good friend from a long time ago. He said, you know, my wife said that you work with people in finances. We don't need you now because we're not going to retire for a few years. But when we do, we need you. And I wanted to be like, oh, you do need me now though, because like there's so many more things I can do five years out than the day, the week of.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Absolutely. That is the perfect time to start talking to a financial planner because there's so many moves you can make, things you can put in place, but you've got to do it before you actually need them. It's so true. You've got to have some time to build up whatever it is. Yeah, we get super excited when people come in five, even 10 years out from when they think they need to make that switch from accumulating money to maybe stopping accumulating or spending some of it, even if we don't call it exactly retirement. I always put retirement in quotes.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

Yeah, it's true. Um, I think we are fortunate at Pro Planning to start working with a lot of people actually in their 30s and 40s, and they're just those like um superstar students who have kind of got past the maxing the retirement account, and they're like, Oh, we think we like have some more questions. And I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys are gonna be so well prepared for whatever life brings you, whether it's an opportunity or a setback, because that is actually what the process, the iterative process of financial planning is is like it's a prep course in life's uncertainties and and turns, and it's also an expander pack for your ability to get things done. Um, but also if you're kicking yourself and you're like, no, I'm retiring like next week, like Stephanie and Melissa are saying I made a huge mistake. That's not the case either. It's still worth a call.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Absolutely, because the financial planning part gets so much more complicated in retirement or close to retirement, or even just closer to the age of Medicare and the age of Social Security. And, you know, there's a time when the IRS says you have to start taking money out of your retirement. Like there's just more, yes, there's more uncertainty. Like if you're planning for retirement, you're trying to get to a certain pot of money, which we can dispute. But still, it's kind, it's kind of simpler. But we don't know how long you're gonna be around. We don't know how much money you're gonna need. We don't know what inflation's gonna do. Like there's a lot of unknowns, which doesn't mean don't plan. It means plan. We can at least try to narrow the range of outcomes and we can know to your point about the iterative process, we're making total guesses, but doing the guesses helps us know how to shift when the shisel hits the fan because it it will.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

That's

Retirement Planning Means Managing Uncertainty

SPEAKER_01 10:04

true. Like if you look in I you we both started working in the mid to late 90s, right? Yep. In this world. And um we've lived through a lot, like having for me 25 plus years of experience um in the world, thrown for a lot of curveballs, also seen a lot of unfortunately personal curveballs thrown at people, but you and you cannot exactly forecast the next 25 years or 30 years. And the reality is that retirement is not a finish line, is starting line.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Yes. Yes. And it's really about like, okay, what are the financial tools that we would, as financial planners, would suggest that you've got in place so that you're as resilient as possible. I mean, yes, you might get curveballs, but you might also like pivot yourself. You might discover some fabulous new thing, or you really want to move to the desert, or you know, things you couldn't have foreseen on the positive side. And we want you to have that flexibility to make those pivots.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

So true.

Rethinking Withdrawal Rules And Spending

SPEAKER_01 11:11

I think like another, you know, kind of consideration is that the when you read, if you're just a personal finance guru who's going and educating yourself, chatting it up, reading research, listening to some of the experts, um, you know, you go to like things like safe withdrawal rate or um, you know, like asset allocation wisdom um that may or may not be as real world. And what needs to be infused with that is not like 4% forever. Like I once told a 72-year-old who was like, I would like you to send me 4% of all of my accounts. And one of the biggest challenges for him was like, okay, you guys have $10 million. And if you just send 4% from every single account, including your $3 million IRA, um, you're gonna have a tax impact that would be different if we could be choosy on which accounts we sent. Also, you're not spending that 4%. So anyway, I digress. But um, but actually, like I feel more than in my entire career compelled to encourage people to spend more in their early retirement because I just see it consistently. Yes. Even the people I'm concerned about spending too much just stay closer to home and spend less on an inflation-adjusted basis in their 80s and 90s when they make it that far. And I it's a waste if you don't have permission to spend earlier, as long as it's not in um, you know, just outrageous ways.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

I'm totally with you. And I have totally changed. You know, I've kind of gone from, like you said before, like what I was mentored on, what I learned from the experts. But then in reality, all right, I had lunch yesterday with a couple, they're both 78, and she had always wanted to travel and he was a little hesitant to spend more money. And now he's got health issues and he can't take a long flight. And she could, he says, go with your friend, but she doesn't want to leave him with his health issues.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

So now And sometimes you can't eventually leave them. So you know, especially you have a double um probability of having lingering or chronic health conditions when you're um with a partner. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's not just your health, it's it's both of your health that is part of the equation.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Whereas this other couple I worked with who are closer to my age, they're like 59, 60. They last year finally I convinced them they're still working. They took the big three-week trip to Portugal that they've been talking about forever. And we talked very much about okay, if our projections don't go as forecast, you know, our software tends to talk about success versus failure in our retirement projections. Right. But I I really tell people now all the time, we're not talking about failure, we're talking about adjustment. That's so true. When people hear failure, they think, I'm living under a bridge. Like, no, just when you're 75, maybe you can't take trips anymore. And you sit at home in your rocking chair looking at your pictures from the great three-week trip to Portugal that you finally took, as opposed to being terrified. And there's research showing a lot of retirees die with more money than they retired with. That's not the goal. Money is not the goal. Money in itself, accumulating more, is not what we're trying to help you do.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

It's so true. And, you know, dying with the most, there's no prize for that. Um I also think like um we you and I have lived through multiple multi-year recessions as professionals. Yeah. Recently, there's not as many examples of those, but I can remind my retiring clients that are in their 50s or 60s. I have um one set in their 40s and and they didn't have probably as much experience in 08 and 09. But like, hey, when you were in that situation, unless you were like also housing your children, adult children, because they were out of work as well, um, you are not booking your around the world trip. And if you were, it was at a 60% discount. So like you, everybody course corrected when they went through a dip very difficult market and spending and like psychology was very scarcely mindset for the better part of the next decade. Um, and that naturally occurs. And the software does not know, can it cannot yet forecast that?

SPEAKER_02 15:46

It doesn't adjust for that. And that's what we say to people, you know, like this we if we say you're spending a hundred thousand a year just to use a round number, the software assumes you go on blithely spending your hundred thousand a year no matter what's going on in the world. Even when you're in the nurse I home.

unknown 16:02

Really?

SPEAKER_01 16:03

Like, like you're not, you don't need that travel budget or the new car in your 90s, probably.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

No. Or like you said, if the the headlines are all scary, or if someone in your family's having a health issue, right? Like we do make adjustments. So while you can do it, go do the cool things that, you know, the bucket list. I saw a guy in an airport. I wish I'd taken a picture. His t-shirt on the back said, die with memories, not dreams.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

Oh, I love that. We need a sticker for that. I know. Um, and you know, all of this is like if you can, if you can carry with you the saying, um, you can't predict, but you can prepare.

SPEAKER_02 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Um, you know, don't be worried about the dollar, like the the exact amount that is forecast at the end of the plan. I find that to be highly unpredictable and not connected to reality. But is there money left at the end of the plan? Predictable. Yes. Yes. Another thing that we I think is like an unspoken part of the conversation that is like a little bit touchy, but let's talk about it generically so that our listeners can can think about how they think about it.

Inheritance And The Burden Of Administration

SPEAKER_01 17:16

The silent generation and baby boomers, first cohort of people who had defined contribution plans more than defined pension or defined benefit plans, they are dying with millions, including property and accounts. First of all, our future retirees have this. Um many of them have an unspoken burden that is they may need to be go back, prepare tax returns from previous years because mom and dad quit doing them before they knew to ask for help. They may need to be going, and you know, it matters if mom and dad have accounts at 45 different banks, a CV at every one. I'm an executor right now. Yes. And um, and there is a component that can be a part of what can, you know, become a really burdensome part of your life, which is taking care of family members. And I will just um shameless plug, but like calling a financial professional like Stephanie or myself and asking, like being like, we need some help because I my whole life is administering um a living estate, you know, uh right now could be on your list. But then many people are inheriting larger sums of money. And how do you think about that before you receive the funds? Like, I do not like putting it into the financial planning software, but it needs to be spoken kind of because it helps to identify how you plan for everything else.

SPEAKER_02 18:46

It's so important. And and I've been having this conversation with a couple because they had been saying, like, we don't want to count on her mom's money, of course, we don't want her mom's money, you know, we want to be okay on our own, and it feels morbid to talk about the money. But at the same time, in their situation, if we plan for zero inheritance, or if we plan for kind of the minimum we think, like there's a pretty big range, but even the minimum we think basically doubles their retirement savings. So, and we don't know when they're gonna get it, but we think they're gonna at least, right? Mom owns two homes, one up north, one in Florida. So just if she has the two homes, she also has a pension and social security and she's not spending that. So chances are there's much more. But planning for zero versus planning for half of the two homes, splitting it with her brother, changes what they can do now. And yes, we can we can stress test it for all right, what if she lives to be 107? Okay, are we endangering your your situation between now and then? But I don't want to plan for zero because if she dies at 107, then they're in their late 70s and they're not gonna be doing the fun things. This is what we see.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Yeah, it is absolutely like our profession looked at demographics 20 years ago, 30 years ago. It was like there is a wave of inheritance coming. All of these people, and it like talk about more of it. It was like they've been saying it since I started doing this work. Right. But it's happening now, yet it is happening to people like they are inheriting literally in their 70s. Mom lived in 99. Wow. Or um it definitely in their 60s. Um, a little bit, you know, for Gen X, but like it is it is definitely like you are you are typical, Stephanie, right? Like um, you know, late 50s is when you all your friends are like dealing with parents' estates or else, you know, trying trying to get to their doctor's appointments while they're also trying to get, you know, uh access to accounts to pay bills.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

And trying to have the conversation. Hey, mom, are you gonna be okay? Like, am I gonna need to support you? Or are we talking inheritance not because I'm greedy and want the money, but it affects the planning. And a lot of that older generation, they were brought up like, you do not talk about money. Do not talk about it. Don't tell your kids that they're gonna inherit because then they'll become greedy little bastards. Like, there's a there's a big issue with the communication, right? There's that great book by Cameron Huddleston, Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk, with tips on like how to get into these conversations. I think that's a big issue around retirement is family conversations, whether it's the generation above, siblings that you might have to be power of attorney for, kids. Like, we gotta talk about this stuff more.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

Yeah. I

Family Money Boundaries With Adult Kids

SPEAKER_01 21:43

mean, the the other the flip side is like kids that could be holding back the ability to retire. Um, or you know, it's like, hey, it's been, I see this often, and I don't wanna overgeneralize, but like with um single women, maybe widowed or divorced, where, you know, like Like the bank of mom just never quit. Oh, yeah. And um, but there is more limited means. Maybe there's not an expected inheritance. And it's like, hey, these are real impacts. And we're talking about like a full grown adult here. Like, I don't think it's done any favors to have like health insurance lasting until 25 or 26. And so I do I mean, yes, I'm for it. But also there's this like um the cord stays very connected in a time where also, you know, like I'm I might have a kid that lives in the house. Like one of them seems like really enjoys being close to home. But like, does that mean that there's no rent? Even if it's um, you know, like you need to kind of um mimic some reality and or sometimes you need to have difficult discussions.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Yes. And I feel like, especially women have picked up this message that if they're worried about their own financial security and accumulating wealth, heaven forbid we use that word, that's selfish. And I I we gotta push back on that. It's not selfish to look after your own financial security because guess what? If you give away too much now to kids or whomever, you might end up sleeping on their couch. Like they probably don't want that down the road either. So it's never selfish to prioritize your own financial health.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Yeah, your self-interest is not selfish. It's actually like part of the kind of American contract, right? Like we are not in a um, this is like the patriarchy is not there to help you. You've got to be accountable for yourself, but also encouraging independence with the next generation is a gift. It is not a curse. That is something that if it hasn't happened yet, then you know, maybe that's where you need to invest in professionals, whether it's psychologist or financial planner, because like um a perpetuity of interdependence is often not sustainable.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Financial coaches can be super helpful, right? Like investigating that thing. I feel like it's one of those things that the family conversation can be super fraught. So bringing in a, you know, mediator, yes, right? Some kind of independent professional who doesn't have the emotional ties can be really helpful.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

For sure. Well,

Overrated Rules And Better Mental Models

SPEAKER_01 24:24

I wanted to like um include in this conversation a few kind of um questions, like, what do you think? Air your full honest assessment, or I can just like speed round. I'll include my own thoughts as well. I haven't scripted them, so we'll just see what comes out. But the first question I have for you, Stephanie, is what is the most overrated retirement rule?

SPEAKER_02 24:47

I think it's the 4%. Like people get so stuck on it. I don't love it either. Yeah, it's so problematic. The research when you dive into it and how they came up with it, like it's the bare, it's to get through the worst of possible times. So then if you limit yourself to 4% and you don't live through the worst of possible times, you've underspent. Yeah. People spend less as they age, as we've said. Like there's a lot of issues with it.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

It's really built. What you don't realize unless you did a lot of research is it's built for like a 30-year window. Um, it's not built to have any sort of resilience in the plan of like adapting. Right. Um, I don't love it either. Another one that I just think is like a um it's built from our grandparents' generation is like you should look at your age and that should be your allocation. Oh, yeah. Cause the reality is like actually one of the the pivot points that's the weakest in terms of your length of um your your success in retirement is like right when you retire. And so many of my clients that are um in uh their 80s and 90s could take on a lot of risk in their portfolio. Most of the money is earmarked for a next generation. Um, and so just be careful about that conventional wisdom that's well intended, but just dated.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

The riskiest day of your investing life is the day you switch from accumulating to decumulating. Because if that's when the bad times hit, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

What is the most underestimated retirement expense, in your opinion?

Hidden Healthcare Costs Like IRMAA

SPEAKER_02 26:19

You know, I think I feel like there's been some talk about that, this, but maybe it's just to kind of in our world. A lot of people don't realize that Medicare has a premium to it. Like they kind of think, oh, I get to 65, I get on Medicare. If they're aware of it and they think, oh, I'm home free, there's no cost. Well, there is a cost, and the cost is actually graduated, right? Depending on your income two years previous. There's IRMA, which I don't never remember what it stands for, but it's basically the surcharge on the Medicare premium. The tax on your Medicare premium if you made more money. That can really hit people, especially if they've followed the conventional wisdom of stuff as much possi and money as possible into your tax-deferred retirement accounts. And then when you start taking it out, you're you're not necessarily in a lower income tax bracket in retirement.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

So true. I think um another medical expense, because I do think it kind of lumps into medical, is like dental, if you're can be huge. Like I had a client that spent 50 or 60,000 on dental work. Um, and that is just not covered. It's a tax deduction, maybe, but and it's things you don't want to be doing.

SPEAKER_02 27:26

But you need teeth, right? Like it's never pleasant.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah. And if you were somebody who, you know, just um embrace more supplements, things that aren't typically covered by prescription plans, things like that.

unknown 27:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

That's another word. You like just you need to be like full honesty. Same with like um uh med spa, plastic surgery. Like, tell us if you plan a facelift. Like, we'll put it in the plan.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Even chiropractic's not really covered, right? Some of these alternative therapies that people are into, including me. But like, yeah, we got to look into that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Um, what do you think one thing is that people should stop worrying about?

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Stop worrying about, oh, I think getting it exactly right, or or this idea like, oh, I should know this stuff. I'm so bad at it, like I'm bad at money. Like, uh, okay. You don't have to go and get an advanced degree and read all the books to make smart money moves, right? Like, kind of give up the perfect, right? Perfect is the enemy of the good, is the enemy of momentum and and taking healthy steps, like the conversation with your parents. You don't have to have it all nailed down, but start.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Just start. Get started. I think I I may I'm willing to like put this on a reel and come back and have it bite me. But um, for wealthy people, like um, stop worrying about whether social security will be there. Totally. I think it will. I think it'll be adjusted. We it takes a crisis for um government to act. Yeah. Um, you can definitely give a haircut in the assumptions, but I think it's you know a social contract that's gonna exist. Liberties vote. Yes, they do. Uh okay, um, what's one thing people aren't worrying enough about?

Planning How You Want To Age

SPEAKER_02 29:21

I I'm not sure if worrying is the word, but like thinking about having a plan for aging. Like, how do you want to age? And we all want to be healthy until we drop dead. But if you have reduced capacity or reduced mobility, what do you want to happen? Do you want to stay in your home and get a chairlift? Do you want to try to live on one floor? I have one couple there in their like mid-50s. They want to move to a continuing care retirement home like tomorrow, because both their parents lived in one and they thought it was great. They've thought about it. They have a plan, they know where they want to go. But a lot of us kind of just do the head in the sand. Even a family member of mine, right? Her husband recently fell down the stairs in this old house that's pretty steep. Then he was paralyzed and then he just passed away. And she's still in the giant old home. Yeah. Change is hard. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

But the most beautiful aging stories I've seen, I use my um first mentor in the professor profession as an example. She moved early to um a retirement community, and they have just been a beacon to what a great retirement should look like. Um, they nailed it, and it was because they were willing to let go of a little bit more earlier.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Right? And they can meet their people and get involved in the community. And we're not saying everyone needs to move to a retirement community, right? Like I interviewed a woman on our podcast who realized after she cared for both of her parents and then they died, she was single, no kids. She's like, who's gonna care for me? So she changed her whole life while she was still young and younger and vibrant, right? She moved to a high rise with people of all different ages, and she got to know her neighbors, and she was in a walkable community, and she had doctors that were nearby. Like she put the things in place to be able to solo age in a in a smart way.

SPEAKER_01 31:23

And so proactive and empowering what you're describing. Uh, okay, I've got a hot take on this one too. I

The Risk Of Self Managing Forever

SPEAKER_01 31:30

think um that hopefully some of our listeners are listening who are these people. We don't talk because you don't work with a professional advisor, because you're really good at managing your own money. And I see you, and I'm not judging you for that. Yeah. But that group of people is very much at risk when it comes to their older years. Because you when you lose capacity, your finances are one of the first places where it goes. It can be an indicator, a warning sign, and all of your smart stuff, uh, all of your stock picking, or you know, you the bulk of head boards are not typically set up to be on self-managed. Right. Um, and you've also likely told your family that this is the way that you should manage your money. Um, you know, I I think of people who brought me portfolios and said, mom or dad were so smart when it comes to finances. And you see a portfolio that is obviously dated from, you know, 2010. Um, and they were and they've accumulated a lot, but there's a lot of things that cannot be managed on autopilot. And you need to have a backstop, a game plan that can be put into place, um, or just hand over the keys at a certain age and commit to that because so many people are like, oh, I would totally, I told my wife to hire you if something happened to me or you know, whatever. And I'm like not thirsty for your business. I like that is not why I'm saying this. I just see so many cases where it's like, oh, it's such a shame that they didn't come earlier. And it's a burden for the family as well.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

So you're saying, like, while the the active investor is still living, but but either, you know, like 75, like be like at 60, be like at 75, we're gonna hand it off if we're even if I'm in great shape because we want somebody to handle the RMDs and do the rebalancing and the tax play.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

Getting the taxes done. Um, and that I just see it time and again where it's like, oh, there's accounts everywhere. And it was all like under a login that's only with dad or whatever. And it's just so much work to get it managed. And I do think like we need to have a chat about that because uh I love the, you know, people that love personal finance, love investing, those are my people. Like, yeah, you guys are doing great. Like, I'll look at people's stuff and they're like, give me a second, look. Can we self-manage? There's other people I see, and I'm like, I don't know if you're that's you. Um, but it does not work forever. It doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 34:10

It doesn't. And my father died now 11 months ago. I'm his executor and I'm seeing it, right? Like accounts he had set up, and who knows when the last time that he actually looked at it. He was good at buying things. He wasn't so good at selling them later on. He's got these crazy holdings that were hot 15 years ago and then have just been, you know, dwindling away since then. Uh I was preparing myself before he passed away to like have the conversation, like, dad. Yeah. And then, you know, here we go with the blessing. He went quickly, but now we're cleaning it up.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Well, last question, maybe the hardest. What has

How Retirees Changed Our Own Plans

SPEAKER_01 34:52

working with retirees changed about your own retirement vision?

SPEAKER_02 34:56

Oh my gosh. I think it's kind of back to like do the fun stuff. Like, go go do it. And it's not really a secret because I've told everybody I'm trying to convince my husband to retire because his job's a lot less flexible than our jobs, right? Yeah, we could take three weeks and do the Portugal trip if we wanted to, but he can't for his job. So, like, you know, he's 60 now, and I I want to go do the things because I don't want to be the couple who at 78 all of a sudden hasn't done it and has health issues and now can't.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Yeah, I had a client tell me um she's contemplating retirement. I want to know who I am outside of work, and I don't know who that person is. She's had an incredible career. Yeah, so cool. But that struck me because I think that's you know, could easily be me. Um a working with retirees, I I see that so much is possible. And like part of our conversation, we are certainly both, you know, technically capable and and I would say I'm biased, but like really fantastic about the numbers, but also it's about being seen as a person, being um encouraged to dream and see possibilities. But I think it will be easy for me to retire a bunch of people and still be kind of um self-chained to the desk. And so um I do have intentions. I'm 51 of having a game plan by the time I'm 61 of when I would retire, because it there's so many people in our profession for a variety of reasons, whether it's their personality being tied to the profession, as well as it's just like kind of a nice stream of annuity income that you don't want to give up that, yep, retire a ton of people and never retire themselves. I do not want to be an 85-year-old. And I don't think anybody wants to hire me as future me in my 80s. But I do want to have a purposeful retirement plan that still has room. And I do want to explore in in the next 10 or 15 years who I am and have and build that life outside of um of the financial profession. Um, and all of my clients doing amazing things in retirement and and um really living blessed lives is is a wonderful um encouragement on that path. Role models for you. They are, and like we get to see so many cool things and see them, you know, kind of um on the whiteboard and then happening. And um, I wouldn't give that up for the for the world. It's a wonderful, it's a what it's a wonderful opportunity to get a chance to talk to people about retirement. Retirement isn't limiting, it's it's empowering if you do it the right way.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Totally. We've had a kind of occasional series within the podcast called Real Retirement Stories, where we have people who have retired women and then then they share what they're doing now. And one with her friends started a podcast called 80s TV Ladies, and they look at 80s TV shows and then they interview like the producers and writers and stars. She has had so much fun, and she worked for, I don't know, one of the networks her whole career. Like, so it ties in, but I mean, she would never have imagined that. There's some really fun stuff that can be done.

Where To Find Stephanie And Her Podcast

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Well, Stephanie, how can people find the podcast as well as your socials and any place else you want to send them? Thank you, Melissa.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

So the podcast is called Take Back Retirement. It's in all the podcast places, and the company is Sophia Financial, Sophia with an F. I'm Stephanie with a PH, Sophia with an F. So it's at Sophia Financial on all the various social places and YouTube.

SPEAKER_01 38:49

Thanks for the real, real discussion when it comes to retirement. I loved having you. Let's do it again sometime. Awesome. Thanks, Melissa.

Listener Support And Closing Disclosures

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Thank you for listening to the Women's Money Wisdom podcast. If you found value in this episode, the best way that you can support the podcast is to forward an episode to a friend or leave a review. Go to ProPlan.com and the podcast link to get all the resources and links mentioned. This presentation by Pro Planning is intended for general information purposes only. No portion of this presentation serves as the receipt of or substitute for personal investment advice from Pro Planning or any other investment professional of your choosing. Copies of Pro Planning's current rent and disclosure brochure and form CRS discussing our advisory services and fees are available upon request or on our website platform at PerlPlan.com. The information that we share is meant to educate and inspire, not serve as personalized financial advice. Everyone's situation is unique, so be sure to consult with your own financial professional for guidance that fits your life. And just so you know, the opinions shared in this podcast are Melissa's own and those of her guest. They don't necessarily represent any organizations with which Melissa is affiliated. For more important disclosures, please go to our webpage at ProPlan.com.