Women's Money Wisdom
You’re working hard, caring for everyone else, and managing a thousand details a day - but when was the last time you focused on your finances?
As a woman, you might carry the emotional and logistical weight of caregiving, parenting, career-building, and household management. It’s no wonder financial planning tends to fall to the bottom of your list -yet it’s one of the most important tools you have for protecting your future, your family, and your peace of mind.
Women’s Money Wisdom is here to change that.
Hosted by Melissa Joy, CFP®, founder of Pearl Planning in Dexter, Michigan, this weekly podcast is your space for practical insights and relatable advice to help you take control of your financial life. From investing and retirement to navigating life transitions and shifting your money mindset, you'll gain the clarity and confidence you need to make empowered decisions.
Maybe you’re preparing for retirement, juggling the needs of both kids and aging parents, or growing a business you’ve built from the ground up. You want to build wealth in a way that reflects your values. You want guidance that honors your full life, not just your portfolio. And most of all, you want a trusted partner who sees the whole picture, not just the numbers.
If you’re ready to stop putting yourself last - at least financially -this podcast is your starting point.
Subscribe to Women’s Money Wisdom and make your financial future a priority.
The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only. No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https://pearlplanning.com/
Women's Money Wisdom
Episode 336: Even More Than Money: Designing a Financial Life on Your Own Terms with Shanna Due
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What is money actually for? On this episode of Women's Money Wisdom, Melissa Joy, CFP®, welcomes Shanna Due, CFP®, founder of Due Financial and editor of the book series More Than Money and Even More Than Money, back to the podcast to talk about her newest project.
Shanna walks through how a group of advisors turned an idea into a traditionally published book, why the follow-up book needed to go further than the first, and how the five-purposes framework, living, changing, dreaming, giving, and enduring, reframes money as a tool for a meaningful life rather than an end in itself.
The conversation also digs into how readers can use the book to find and vet a financial advisor, from understanding the alphabet soup of credentials to knowing what questions to ask and what a real advisor relationship looks like over time.
Melissa and Shanna talk candidly about permission to spend versus permission to save, giving during your lifetime, and why finding an advisor you genuinely like and trust matters just as much as their credentials. All proceeds from the book benefit Third Decade, a nonprofit that provides long-term financial coaching to people rebuilding their financial lives.
What You'll Learn
- How a group of financial advisors turned an idea into a traditionally published book, twice
- Why Even More Than Money was built around a five-purposes framework: living, changing, dreaming, giving, and enduring
- The difference between a must-save mindset and giving yourself permission to spend
- Why giving during your lifetime can be as meaningful as giving through an estate
- How to decode financial advisor credentials and know what questions to ask before hiring one
- What a real financial advisor relationship looks like, from one-time projects to ongoing partnerships
- Why liking and trusting your advisor matters as much as their technical expertise
- How the book's proceeds support Third Decade, a nonprofit providing long-term financial coaching
The previous presentation by PEARL PLANNING was intended for general information purposes only. No portion of the presentation serves as the receipt of, or as a substitute for, personalized investment advice from PEARL PLANNING or any other investment professional of your choosing. Different types of investments involve varying degrees of risk, and it should not be assumed that future performance of any specific investment or investment strategy, or any non-investment related or planning services, discussion or content, will be profitable, be suitable for your portfolio or individual situation, or prove successful. Neither PEARL PLANNING’s investment adviser registration status, nor any amount of prior experience or success, should be construed that a certain level of results or satisfaction will be achieved if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. PEARL PLANNING is neither a law firm nor accounting firm, and no portion of its services should be construed as legal or accounting advice. No portion of the video content should be construed by a client or prospective client as a guarantee that he/she will experience a certain level of results if PEARL PLANNING is engaged, or continues to be engaged, to provide investment advisory services. A copy of PEARL PLANNING’s current written disclosure Brochure discussing our advisory services and fees is available upon request or at https...
Welcome And The Book Reveal
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Women's Money Wisdom Podcast. I'm Melissa Joy, a certified financial planner, and the founder of Girl Planning. My goal is to help you streamline and organize your finances, navigate big money decisions with confidence, and be strategic in order to grow your wealth. As a woman, you work hard for your money, and I'm here to help you make the most of it. Now let's get into the show. Today, we are going to be talking about a passion project that I'm going to share how I have a tangential relationship to. It's an extraordinary accomplishment, a new book. We love having our authors and editors on the podcast. She is a certified financial planner. She is the founder of Do Financial. And she is also the editor of More Than Money and Even More Than Money. More Than Money was a book project that I got a chance to contribute a chapter to a few years ago. And now they have a second project coming out. Shauna and I are both members of a group called AGC, which is a group of advisors that work to make each other better and also work to make the world around us better. And so I'm just so excited to talk about this project project. Shauna, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER_02I've been looking forward to this ever since we booked it. I'm so excited to talk to you. And I've missed you.
SPEAKER_01Yes, I know. I don't like hop into the AGC often enough. I've found like the job of building a business, being a podcaster, all those things takes a lot of hours in the day. And um, but my community of professional advisors, people who do things like me, are really an incredible backbone and um just friends who understand a part of my life that I can't talk about in, you know, with mom friends or my friends I grew up with and all that stuff. Um, and so you have herded cats yet again, um, to get a group of advisors
Turning An Idea Into A Published Book
SPEAKER_01together, people like me and you, um, to write a book for the general public um for good, for nonprofit, right? Um, tell me a little bit about the book series and then tell me about even more than money. Oh, perfect.
SPEAKER_02Um, so we started, and Melissa was part of those initial conversations because in the AGC, we are just a group of advisors trying to do beautiful things in our clients' lives and for the world as a whole. And so we kind of just started as somebody's idea. It was Amir's idea of like, hey, we should write a book. And so we all got together, like, what would we write a book about and who would it be for? And originally we were just gonna self-publish it. And then um, one of our editor friends was like, Hey, did you think about pitching it to an actual publisher? And I was like, I have no idea how to do that. I mean, I literally, and you know this fellows are like I raised my hand to set up the Zoom room.
SPEAKER_01Like, well, okay, let me say, like, let me give Shauna a little bit more credit because the reality is there's a bunch of people like myself who are like, we should do this. And it's like, hey, we should do a lot of work. And then it's like, who is going to organize this chaos? And um, all of the we should do this people, including myself, are like, couldn't be me. Like, and you, um, whether you volunteered, voluntoled, or just like knew you had that organizational ability, were able to really create out of that chaos a book published by a publishing house. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I did not know when I raised my hand. I just, the first book, there are just like you amazing advisors in there with years of experience and talent and a real passion for helping their clients, not just to balance portfolios and make good investment choices. Like they really want to get into their clients' lives and make the best use of their resources that align with their values. And I just wanted to be in that room. I just wanted to be amongst the people. Um, because I'm a career changer, so I didn't have as much experience in that space. And I was like, I just want to hear what everyone has. So I was like, yeah, I'll I'll organize some Zoom rooms. And then the next thing I knew, because I had no experience writing a book, I had no idea what it entailed. And then after I got into it, I was like, what have I done? Like, that's crazy. Uh, but then we got the publisher, Harriman House came on board. Um, and that was an amazing experience. And they really helped kind of shape and help me through that process, as opposed to me just making wack-a-doo spreadsheets and Monday boards going, um, what did I mean?
SPEAKER_01I literally Melissa, turn in your draft. Come on, man.
SPEAKER_02You're overdue. Like, you don't, I don't think if you've never written a book that you truly appreciate what goes into a book. So I started after I volunteered, and I did volunteer, nobody told me I had to. Um, I started like I pulled a book off the shelf, you know, and like I happen to have this one right here at my desk. But and I'm looking at like, okay, um, so you have to have a cover. Like, we're gonna have to like design a cover. Like, I bet these don't just come pre-made. So we're gonna have to design a cover. And I started working, I was like, it has like acknowledgments and endorsements and prefixes and gutters, yeah, like all the things and like the blurb on the you have to write this. Like, this doesn't just happen. And then you have to get them like so. Anyway, it was a huge learning curve, loved all of it. It was um working with really busy entrepreneurs, advisors, they're busy, they have businesses to run. So there is a little bit of cat herding of a lot,
Why The Proceeds Go To Nonprofits
SPEAKER_02a lot of cat herding, but it's so much fun. And then all the proceeds go to nonprofits. So the first book, we really focused on people who are doing pro bono financial advice and providing opportunities for uh we did BLX, so they provide internships for those that are underrepresented in our field to get internships at the only um places. And so that was really fun. And this time we've chosen Third Decade, which is an amazing nonprofit organization that works with uh people over two years. So it's not just you have a financial life event and you go see them and they help you work through it. They work with their clients for two years to help work on getting them all set with their money, whether it's basic budgeting and crisis management all the way through to getting on their feet.
SPEAKER_01Um That's amazing. So yeah, so the proceeds, the proceeds and profits go to these nonprofit organizations for the book. They do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02None of us reap any um of those proceeds at all. So it it's and it really helps in those moments when I'm sitting back going, what what have I done? Like why um, you know, reading the umpteenth draft and editing, and I'm like, what have I done? I could be sitting outside reading another book. Um and done with these words. Done with these words, but then I remember the messages and hopefully how much it will help readers. And um, and a third decade. So that's amazing.
SPEAKER_01So you get one book published, huzzah! Amazing. And then the work is not done because the reality is if you if you don't promote, then the book collects dust on shelves, and um, you know, you you have the you've you have the notch of the book was published, but not much else. Um, you get through all of that hard work, and then somebody else says, hey, we should do another. How did how did even more than money come to fruition? Um, that's a wonderful wow.
SPEAKER_02I have to think back. I think it was just kind of we had a conversation. I think Justin and I sat down and we're talking a little of like, should we do this again? Um, so we put out feelers. I did kind of some wrap-up work. Um uh I sent out a survey to all the previous contributors of just how did this work for you? Did you enjoy it? Did you see a personal benefit? Did you see a monetary benefit? Um, I wrapped all that up and then we put it back out to the organization of like, if we were willing to do this again, would you want to participate just to see what the interest level was? Um, and then if we were to do it again, I spent some time talking. Well, first we went to the publisher. It's like, should we do this again? Would you be on board to do this again? And they were, and we talked a little bit about would it just be the exact same thing again? And we all felt like the first book was really good. I highly recommend it. It's a fun to sit down and read all the different stories. Yeah. But it did kind of leave you at the end um that neat. Those were really nice stories, but now what? And so it was important to both Harriman House and our senior advisor there, senior editor there, Craig Pierce, and then ourselves of this one had to have a little bit more. So what? So you just read a story about how planning can help all families, not just those with yachts
Making The Second Book More Practical
SPEAKER_02and vacation homes, but like planning can help every family out there in some form or fashion. But how do you do that? And what could you do on your own if you didn't have a professional to help you? So that's what we tried really hard in this book to do is to show the different ways that money works through our lives. And that became the five sections. And then after every chapter, after every story, there are reflective questions. So you can read that as an example, but then how what is my life? And even you personally, it'll be, you know, an aunt, an uncle, a good friend of yours that maybe has the same kind of situation. Um, and how do you and it's just a reflection. It's a great to like if you do have a partner or parents or siblings, how do you think about money? Like, and a lot of them are really um they're easy, they're very entry-level. There's nothing that's gonna spark, you know, a like sometimes money can be really, really hard to talk about. So true. And these reflective questions are kind of an easy way to just, you know, get a beverage of choice, sit with your partner with a cup of tea or your parents on the back porch on a beautiful afternoon and just be like, I read this story about a couple who found a piece of property and for 25 years they built their dream home, like piece by piece over years. Like, if money weren't an object to you, what would you do? Like, mom and dad, what do you want for the next 20 years of your life? Kind of thing. And it's really it's in it it smooths the entry level in as opposed to what are we gonna do with our money? We, you know, our our statement says we have X amount or 401k, how long is that gonna last us? Like let's look at, let's start on the other end of that. What do we want it to do?
SPEAKER_01So it's so powerful. Like, I think that we start with surface level concepts when it comes to money as a society, and not like coming out of the 80s and 90s, and then we add in a culture of algorithms and influencers, and everything's getting distilled and distracted in way like there's a lot of good that comes of it too. Like, I feel like there's accessibility to some basic financial wisdom, like pay off debt, contribute to your retirement accounts and things like that, that's healthy and good. Um, but then we are also looking externally for how we judge our own financial success, how we prioritize our financial life. And and really when it comes to money, it is it is not an end-all be-all. Nobody gets, I just told a client today, like, nobody gets a reward for dying with the most money at the end. Nobody gets to come to that awards ceremony and pick up the prize. So, like, you know, thinking about what your money is as a resource to giving you the life that you want and also protecting you from risks that life brings as well. Um, it requires a lot more work than just looking through an Instagram feed of personal finance influencers or also, you know, people that are showing their own yachts or second homes that might be rented. Um absolutely.
SPEAKER_02And maybe that's okay too, right? Totally, no judgment. I have no, I mean, it doesn't affect me one way or the other. If my clients, you know, I I specialize in the college planning space and how to do that. And it it doesn't affect me one way or the other. If a family wants to go $400,000 in debt, hopefully by coming to see me, that's not their goal. And we're gonna do better than that. But it's what do you really want out of that money? Um, and I just I was on a group mission trip last week, and one of the leaders asked me, because we were talking about the book being released. Um, my friend let it out of the bag. And she's like, I have a question for you. And I was like, fire away. And she's like, so I'm trying to decide. I'm 61. I don't want to work forever. Like, should I retire early or do I keep working? And I was like, okay, that's a loaded question.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Talk about a no context, like, uh do it. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Do you have $5 in the bank or do you have a million? I don't know. Yeah. But the one thing that I can come back and tell her is like, what do you really want it to look like? Because one thing that she mentioned was I've always been in the save, save, save, save mode. But then a friend of hers said, you don't know if you're how long you have. So you're gonna continue to work and save, and then find out you're getting stage four, you know, whatever, and you don't get to spend any of it. And she's like, I don't want to be that way. And I said, So this is where I think the book can really come in handy because you get to start asking in a structured manner. I mean, first the reflective questions are very just they're reflective. Healthy are no right or wrong answers, right? Just a starting point. But then at the end of each um section, there's actually practical steps. And I think that becomes so valuable for people as they're looking at their money of what do I really want? Because the same thing that got you your 401k balance may not be the thing that helps you spend it. Because they're kind of two different mindsets, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. They are um opposite of each other, like must save versus, oh, I have permission to spend. Are you kidding me? I I didn't again, I didn't figure out how to do that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And some people need no help with permission to spend, right? Like, and then we run into enough. So having that really structured, you know, once we figure out what the dream is, and then we can put a number to it, and then we can see where we're at and if there are trade-offs to be made. Like maybe I want to spend the time that I have while my knees are still good and my back doesn't hurt and I can still carry my suitcase. I want to spend that traveling. And I'm willing to live in a smaller retirement, retirement home, my my forever home, to do that. Maybe I don't need six bedrooms and whatever, you know. Yes. Um, but you can't do that until you sit down and and spend some time thinking about it. And especially if there are other people that are in the money mix. Um, and one part that I really love about the book too is it talks about giving during your lifetime. Oh perfect. You know, like if you have a little extra or you know you're not gonna need it, can you help out those that are still around you so that you can see? We, I mean, we there are studies that show that giving makes you feel better. Like it's just us. And when you get to see what your money can do, whether it's in your family, your children's, your grandchildren's, or just the the community you live in, seeing what that can do and the impact it can have while you're alive and you get to watch it and enjoy it is another thing. That's transforming. Um, and then I think about all of us. I mean, I don't know, maybe you were independently wealthy growing up, Melissa, and it would have helped you. But there were times in my life when maybe a few, you know, a little extra money to help with that down payment on a car would have just given me a little bit
Money As A Tool Not A Score
SPEAKER_02of breathing room that I could have added to my retirement fund if I could have just had a little extra. Um, and so when you can have families help their children and their grandchildren do that, it it creates a benefit that just goes on and on and on, right?
SPEAKER_01So true. I think like maybe this is the right time to talk about it, but you've broken the book into a five purposes framework. And those purposes are living, changing, dreaming, giving, which you just mentioned, and enduring. And I love this um way of thinking of things. There's there's a lot of different ways that you can um segment financial advice, but the thing to me is like all of those things are not about investment returns, right? They're about supporting you in your life in a way that should influence and and in and augment your quality of life if done correctly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's really what and
The Five Purposes Of Money
SPEAKER_02we can't um at any point just pass over, you know, the investing part of it. Because most of the time.
SPEAKER_01No, no, that's incremental, or I mean, that's integral to to what we do. It's just not it's an it's it's not the for me, it's not the point. It's a the point is you and your money, when well managed, gives you additional access, resource, confidence, options, optionality. So it's a tool.
SPEAKER_02It is a tool. I mean, money is all of a tool. Um, Carl Richards says, and I'm maybe other, maybe he got it from somewhere else, but most recently he's just said profit equals permission. So by having money, whether it's through any of the five stages that we talked about in the book, and it took us, we had a lot of discussions on how to divide up. And I think Melissa, you remember for more than money when we were dividing that one up of what's the purpose of money.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Um, because there are all these different ways to look at it. Do you do it chronologically? Do you do it by transitions? Do you do so the authors for this book? We spent a lot of time thinking about how would we section this one out? And this is what we came up with of just at the I mean, at the purest form, or it is easiest form, money is for living right now. Like, yeah. How how do we pay our bills? How do we save for the future? How I mean that is part of living.
SPEAKER_01Um for sure. Your current and future self.
SPEAKER_02It is. And then there's the changing because we will all go through change. I mean, it's the one constant in life, right? Change. And sometimes that is exciting and new, adding a baby, buying a house. Sometimes it's unfortunate and things we don't want. Um, natural disasters. Like there's a story in there that Johans tells about his client living through a hurricane and the aftermath of the hurricane. And because she had some money in the bank, she weathered that well. And that was a bad pun. Sorry about that. But no, um for fixed. But we will have changes that come in our life. Maybe we lose a spouse before we thought we were going to um job changes. So having those emergency funds and the ideas of what we would do if life changed, preparing, doing some risk mitigation, having the right insurance. And that is all, none of that is glamorous, but it's all part of the puzzle. Um, and then then it gets to the exciting part of the book of dreaming and then giving it away while you can see it happen. And then the enduring part of what do you want? Not just your money. And I think that's what's really exciting about the enduring section. It's not just your money, but what will your legacy be? So powerful. And money is the tool for that. But like, what is your legacy? What what will someone say about you when you're no longer able to speak for yourself?
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I think sure we lost whatever question you asked me.
SPEAKER_01No, you're I got excited. It is exciting, and I think one of the things that a book like this gives examples of is how it's easy to quantify the cost of advice from a financial advisor, whether it's an engagement cost annually or assets in our management fee. Um, it is more difficult to quantify the value that you receive from a financial advisor because when done correctly, it is personalized to you in your life and it is including your investments, but it is not um, that is not where it ends. And some of these stories, I think, where you can really see a practitioner um demonstrating their ability to navigate change, be a change management agent, and or see the person in a time where they sometimes can't see their capabilities themselves entirely because they don't have, you know, like you don't have a 360 degree view when you're, you know, eyes out. That is some of the important um considerations. And it's also, I think, a differentiator because not every Person who has a license to sell securities meets those objectives and and you know kind of fulfills that type of advice.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And not every um advice, I mean, not every client out there wants some of the work. I mean, absolutely just want, I want you to manage my portfolio so you can make me as much money as possible so that I can do other things. And true as you said, there's no judgment in that. I I do think that there's a lot of benefit to doing the way we've kind of outlined in the book. Um, but not everyone out there is interested in that. But for those who are, um, there's a really great way of you know having your advisor know your life's worth, not just necessarily your net worth. Um and if you're not someone who just wants to get that net worth, and for some that's the goal. Um and good for them, for I think I I almost um I won't say I admire, but I do um I'm marvel at when that is all like the goal, and you're just like next money, next money, next money, because my brain just doesn't work that way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. But do you have a favorite anecdote or you know, kind of story from the book? Oh, that's like my favorite, right? Feel free to mention your own.
SPEAKER_02Um, well, I just do a story for this book. I did the last section. Um I do enjoy, I mean, for a shameless plug in the first book, I did enjoy my story because they were my clients. Um, and they're a beautiful couple. Just they literally came to me and said, What, you know, when I was like, What do you what do you want to do with your life? Like, what do you want to do with your money? Kind of really, really just broad, just to kind of get a feel for where they are. And they're like, we want to save a life. Wow. Okay. Um, let's go. Let's let's talk about that. Uh, so that was one of my favorite stories, but that's a little biased. In the new book, I didn't do a client story. Uh, I did the part of like, how do you actually build your team? What does it mean to have a financial advisor? What are all the different letters, the alphabet behind people's names? What do that? Such a soup. Who do you actually need to build? Because you do kind of need a team. You need someone who can help you with your insurance, you need someone who can help you with your taxes.
How To Find The Right Advisor
SPEAKER_02You need, so I broke all that down. And then how do you go about finding those people? And what we would consider, what you and I would probably consider the right people to have a how do you find them? What questions do you ask? What red flags are you looking for?
SPEAKER_01So that's the section that I wrote for this um Which is a great section for those out listening, because I think, you know, um a good advisor would welcome conversation of like, hey, do you have a list of questions? You know, typical ones I hear, are you a fiduciary? How do how do we um pay for things? But also there's ways to look up advisors to see if they have a record of um indiscretions or disputes, like see if they have a clean sheet, things like that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, see that. And that was one thing that we noticed when the publisher and we talked um after the first book, there wasn't, after you read the book, there wasn't really instructions on like, okay, great, I think someone like this could help me in my life. Right. Yeah. I mean, other than how do I find them? It'd be great if one of the stories resonated with you and you just contacted that person. That's easy peasy lemon squeezy. But how do you even know? Because in this book, in the first book, we had 25 contributors. Um, so that's 25 to choose from. Um, in this book, we have 20. How do you know of those which one's the right one? And so that was one thing we really wanted to make sure we did in this book was to help readers decipher the mess of the alphabet soup, figure out how an engagement works. So if you've read the book and you think like, oh, that, you know, having a planner and advisor could really help me. But what I've never done that, right?
SPEAKER_01Like, yeah, how do I get started? And it's intimidating, I know, from hearing people in intro calls.
SPEAKER_02It's there's, I mean, you put it into Google or you put it into chat, GPT, or whichever of your um AI agent you want to use, and you come back with all these names in your neighborhood. They all some of them are from big banks, some of them are independent. What does that mean? Some of them are broker dealers. Oh what? Like, so we really wanted to make sure that we kind of walk the reader through like, this is what all this stuff means. Here are all the different types of people you might want to look at. Um, and then what kind of questions can you ask? And then the last part of it is what does an what does a relationship with an advisor look like? So there's like the one-time deals project work. I you go in, you meet them, you do a specific project, and then you're done. Or there's an ongoing, and how does that? I mean, obviously every firm is different, but we I just kind of did a generic like, this is what it would look like for the first year. Right.
SPEAKER_01That's great.
SPEAKER_02And at least it provides a baseline. So then they could come to like you, Melissa, and be like, so this is kind of how I understand how this will work. And you can say that it's like that, but we do this a little bit different. Perfect. Now they have some sort of education to go out and understand where those conversations are coming from. So I get the huge bonus in this book that didn't exist in the first one, just to help readers understand what they're looking for and what might work best for them. You know, maybe you don't need an ongoing relationship for the next 20 years. Maybe you need someone you can just come back and visit um periodically. Benefit in that, but if you're really, you know, maybe young, really simple, one job, you know exactly where your money's going to and then you can just go back and see someone as other things happen.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And I have choice because we are very relational, that what I do and like I welcome people when they say, This is what I'm looking for. And if it's not exactly what we do, the right financial advisor would be like, But here's a list of people I think you could reach out to that are reputable um and and fit what you're looking for. Because finding the right fit, finding people that you don't feel like you need a good hair day, you can show up as you are. You can show up on a bad day when something's going wrong, which is often when people are initially reaching out because there's a big change, big, big difference, and sometimes it's negative um or difficult, then um you you do want somebody that you're comfortable being like, you just make no sense. Like, can you please re-explain that in a different way or start with like more foundational blocks, even if you're very sophisticated?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And we talk, I mean, I used to when I would do call well, and I still do, but to me, there are kind of four easy questions. The book goes into a lot more. But the last one is just do you like this person? Is this that you would on that bad day that you would call and want to tell them things? And do they talk to you the way you want me to talk to you? I mean, you and I both know we have engineers as clients, and they talk in a completely different way than my artist friends or my artist clients, right?
SPEAKER_01I need to acknowledge the spreadsheet, but also be comfortable being like, money is not, and sometimes it's in the same family, right? And so then what's happened in the past, yeah. In the past, it's just been like delegated. So the spreadsheet person takes that backpack and runs with it, but then the other person isn't seen in the engagement. Um, or they may not like or be comfortable with the person that they're working with. So all of these things are considerations.
SPEAKER_02It's really important that you like the person and you want to talk to them and you like how they talk to you. Um, and that doesn't mean that every advisor is for everyone. I say you may not like me, and that's okay. Let's find something that we do like or someone who specializes in what you're doing. Because there are there are advisors out there that there are some that you know serve a great variety of clients, and there are others that are very, you know, specific to. I mean, I have a friend of mine who only does Google employees that are on H1B C'est that's that is very specific. But by golly, if I have a Google employee come to me that's on an H1B so or similar, that's where I send them because they know those benefits inside out, backwards, upside down, and they're gonna get great service there. And that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01I love that. I think um one of the things being on the Women's Money Wisdom podcast is those knowing that people are in relationships. Um, sometimes those, and this is enough, this is actually like acknowledging and really liking the specificity of career-based financial approaches. Um, one of the reasons I've shied away from that though is because for me, I love managing people who are our partners, spouses, or have a shared financial life. Um, both of them. And if I go to specialize in, you know, nurse practitioners who work at University of Michigan, if they're in a relationship, that other person is left out from the area of expertise. And so, and it's okay to be, you know, both areas of focus, but that's more why we've chosen to focus kind of on Gen X and older millennials who are in that messy money middle. Um, and just knowing your areas of strength is and being able to articulate them to the people you're working with um is a great way to help them assess if you're a great fit for them. You don't need to be everything to everyone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. And a hyper niche like that. Um, I also I have a friend of mine that works with um police officers only. Like that's his jam. But they have spouses, right? And so, I mean, he can't just work with police officers out of know the spouse and their career, but at least it's a place sometimes to start with.
SPEAKER_01And yeah, because it can be super nuanced, you know, understanding the 457 for a public pension plan or something like that. So um that it requires a lot of specificity sometimes. Yeah. Well, where can people find the book?
SPEAKER_02Hada. It is. So I'm gonna, I mean, I have it all over the office, but if I can again, here it is, the beautiful cover. It is in all of your major bookstores.
Purpose Statements And Clear Next Steps
SPEAKER_02Harriman House is the publisher, but they are owned by McMillan. So you can find it on all your major uh Barnes and Noble. I hate to list them off because I know I'll miss someone and I've got a lot of people. We'll have links in the show notes. But yeah, it's at Barnes and Noble, Walmart, Target, Amazon. Amazing. Check your local independent bookstores. A lot of them will carry it as well. Always want to get those indie stores out there. Um, they can all order it for you. So if you have your local independent store, go in and ask them to order it for you. Um, and just read it. It's great because it is in sections and each story is no more than five pages. So for those of us who are scattered, you can go in, read a story, reflect on the questions. It's kind of a nice um, maybe at the end of the day kind of thing. Yeah. Read the story, reflect on the question, have a little dinner conversation. You can even probably um put your kids in there, especially like the dreaming section. I mean, it's fun. What do your kids think? You know, like if they didn't have money, what would they want to do? Um, a lot of them don't always understand how much things cost anyway.
SPEAKER_01So I know nowadays, like money is a weird concept because it's kind of um consumption is visible and the actual exchange of monetary is like a swipe of a credit card. Yeah. Um, having those discussions with kids is highly recommended as far as I'm concerned.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I think um, you didn't ask me, but in closing, as you're ready to head out, I think one of the main themes that we've come throughout the book is kind of some of us in our industry, the technical term we call is like statement of financial purpose. But when you have these conversations with whoever affects your money life, either in your immediate four walls or those next tangential walls, that gives you your azimuth. It gives you your North Star. So every other money decision that you start to make, you can come back to that statement. So whatever that statement is, um, for me, it's spending as much time with my kids while they're still at home. Every money decision I make, you know, do I want a jet ski? Um, well, will the jet ski give me more time, quality, quality time with my kids before they leave to go off to college? Then every decision I make comes off of that. And I love that. It I won't say it makes money decisions easy because money is hard, but it does provide some simplicity. You know, once once you get other things taken care of, we get an emergency fund, we get our risk mitigation, we have all those things, then it becomes does this go back to what I said was really important? And if it does, it's a yes. If it doesn't, we get to move on and we don't have to ruminate over the decision. So that's fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. We'll have links to the book. And Shauna, congratulations on yet again hurting the cats. This is a monumental accomplishment, and um it's all because of you. Not all, but it's so much because of you. So I I just want you to have that recognition.
SPEAKER_02So I appreciate it was a wonderful experience with the whole team and everyone worked really hard. But um, I am I'm thrilled that it is out there in the world, and I don't have to edit it. Amazing. Thanks so much, Melissa. It was great to chat with you, and I will see you soon in the AC.
Support The Podcast And Resources
SPEAKER_00Thank you for listening to the Women's Money Wisdom podcast. If you found value in this episode, the best way that you can support the podcast is to forward an episode to a friend or leave a review. Go to ProPlan.com and the podcast link to get all the resources and links mentioned. This presentation by Pro Planning is intended for general information purposes only. No portion of this presentation serves as the receipt of or substitute for personal investment advice from ProPlanning or any other investment professional of your choosing. Copies of Pro Planning's current rent and disclosure brochure and form CRS discussing our advisory services and fees are available upon request or on our website platform at PerlPlan.com. The information that we share is meant to educate and inspire, not serve as personalized financial advice. Everyone's situation is unique, so be sure to consult with your own financial professional for guidance that fits your life. And just so you know, the opinions shared in this podcast are Melissa's own and those of her guests. They don't necessarily represent any organizations with which Melissa is affiliated. For more important disclosures, please go to our webpage at ProPlan.com.
